Ranger 2-weapon clarification

[kengar]

If a ranger has a longsword in his primary hand (right) and a dagger in his secondary hand (left), would he suffer any additional penalty beyond the normal -2 for throwing the dagger as opposed to fighting with it in melee? Nothing that I could find in the PHB or the DnD FAQ on WOTC's site mentions that the ability is specific to melee v. ranged. Any thoughts?

 

[Crothian]

Two weapon fighting does not apply to ranged attacks. It is hidden under the description of the Heavy Crossbow.

 

[Corlon]

I always houseruled that it did, cause I thought it made sense

would that over power two weapon fighting?

I don't really see how if it does.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I always houseruled that it did, cause I thought it made sense

would that over power two weapon fighting?

I don't really see how if it does.

Have you actually read the rules under x-bow ? They basically say you don't need TWF to gain the same benefits !

 

[kengar]

Two weapon fighting does not apply to ranged attacks. It is hidden under the description of the Heavy Crossbow.

The text under Heavy Crossbow (PHB p.100) reads:

"A Medium-size or larger character can shoot, but not load, a heavy crossbow with one hand at a -4 penalty. A Medium-size or larger character can shoot a heavy crossbow with each hand at a -6 penalty, plus the usual -4 penalty for the off-hand attack (-6 primary hand/-10 off hand). The Two-Weapon Fighting feat does not reduce these penalties because it represents skill with melee weapons, not ranged weapons. The Ambidexterity feat lets someone avoid the -4 off-hand penalty (-6 primary hand/-6 off hand)." (emphasis mine)

The above information refers to "weapons", not "attacks." A dagger is listed as a melee weapon -not ranged- in Table 7-4. The fact that one can make a ranged attack with it doesn't change its weapon type. Now, what Crothian says may well be true, but I don't think the PHB text is 100% clear on this point.

 

[Crothian]

The dagger is treated like a ranged weapon when used as ranged weapon.

I think it was clarified in a Sage Advice.

 

[kreynolds]

I think it was clarified in a Sage Advice.

Here's an old reply from Skip...

Consider a ranger with the quick draw feat and rapid shot, who wishes to throw daggers.

At first level, can I do any or all of the following, and at what penalties:

Throw two daggers with rapid shot, and then a final dagger with my off hand? I'd think yes, with all attacks at -4.

No, -6. Two-weapon fighting and the ranger ability don't apply to ranged attacks. You suck up the penalties for two weapon fighting with a light off-hand weapon (assuming you're medium-size).

In this case, you get the benefit of off hand weapon light and ambidexterity: -4 to each hand, plus the -2 rapid shot penalty to all.

Throw two daggers with rapid shot, and then make an attack with a short sword in my off hand? I'd think yes again, with the daggers at -4, and the short sword at -2 or -4.

As the first answer, except you get the benefit of two-weapon fighting with the melee attack, only -4 on that one.

Make an attack with a longsword in my primary hand, and then throw a dagger with my off hand? Again, I'd vote yes, but I don't know what the penalties would be.

Again, to two-weapon fighting benefit for the throw:
-2 for the sword, -4 for the throw.

Throw two daggers with rapid shot, and then make an attack with my longsword? I'd say yes, at -4 to the daggers, and -6 for the longsword (rapid shot + heavy off hand)

-8 for the daggers, -6 for the sword.

And finally, throw two daggers with my primary hand rapid shot, and two with my offhand rapid shot? I'd say no to this.

One extra attack for rapid shot.

And then if that ranger hits 9th level, and gets improved 2 weapon fighting, does that just add another dagger I can toss with the off hand?

No, The ability doesn't apply to throws. You can get an extra melee attack though.

Skip Williams
RPG R&D

 

[kengar]

Make an attack with a longsword in my primary hand, and then throw a dagger with my off hand? Again, I'd vote yes, but I don't know what the penalties would be.

Again, to two-weapon fighting benefit for the throw:
-2 for the sword, -4 for the throw.

Actually, this works for what I was trying to figure out. I was more worried about the off-hand penalty than anything else, thanks all.