D&D 5E Ranger Extra Attack and Horde Breaker

[Pickles III]

I disagree on the spacing - within 5' means no more than a 5' gap between individuals. In TotM they may be out of arms reach of one another. (On a grid I would probably say adjacent squares though - you could argue it either way - weird difference. If it proved to hard to get to trigger I would tend to be more lenient. It's usually worse than Colossus slayer so I would want to encourage it.

There is a difference with eg the 10' flaming sphere too. On a grid two targets would have to be in adjacent squares to both get hit while in TotM they could be up to 10' apart (though I would probably say more like 5 to get the full effect - TotM is never very precise anyway)

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I disagree on the spacing - within 5' means no more than a 5' gap between individuals. In TotM they may be out of arms reach of one another. (On a grid I would probably say adjacent squares though - you could argue it either way - weird difference. If it proved to hard to get to trigger I would tend to be more lenient. It's usually worse than Colossus slayer so I would want to encourage it.

It's interesting that you say Colossus Slayer is superior. To me it looks the opposite. Horde Breaker is a potential 19.5+ points of damage due to Sharpshooter; Colossus Slayer is a potential 4.5. Horde Breaker can miss, but then Colossus Slayer can hit a target that isn't damaged yet. I certainly have seen Colossus Slayer trigger more often so far than I think Horde Breaker would have (5' spacing isn't very much) but it hasn't been important. In 5E, quantity of enemies and enemy special abilities (e.g. Mind Blast, drow poison) are the most dangerous conditions, and if Horde Breaker isn't triggering that means there's a good chance the situation isn't really dangerous.

4.5 damage per round just doesn't seem like a big deal.

That's how it looks to me at any rate. I wouldn't mind hearing why and in what sense you think Colossus Slayer is superior.

 

[Coredump]

It's interesting that you say Colossus Slayer is superior. To me it looks the opposite. Horde Breaker is a potential 19.5+ points of damage due to Sharpshooter; Colossus Slayer is a potential 4.5. Horde Breaker can miss, but then Colossus Slayer can hit a target that isn't damaged yet. I certainly have seen Colossus Slayer trigger more often so far than I think Horde Breaker would have (5' spacing isn't very much) but it hasn't been important. In 5E, quantity of enemies and enemy special abilities (e.g. Mind Blast, drow poison) are the most dangerous conditions, and if Horde Breaker isn't triggering that means there's a good chance the situation isn't really dangerous.

4.5 damage per round just doesn't seem like a big deal.

That's how it looks to me at any rate. I wouldn't mind hearing why and in what sense you think Colossus Slayer is superior.

Two things, Damage like Collosus or Sneak attack is 'worth more' than normal damage, because it is more likely to occur. But that is a fairly minor point.

It depends on what you think your target will be. If you want to be more effective against foes with plenty of hit points, or agaisnt foes that stand next to each other. I have had plenty of encounters where my preferred target is not standing next to anyone else; much more often than my preferred target isn't injured at all. I am often targetting someone in back (leader, mage, archer, etc) or someone trying to get away. Even up front, there are plenty of times where the targets are not next to each other.

 

[Pickles III]

It's interesting that you say Colossus Slayer is superior. To me it looks the opposite. Horde Breaker is a potential 19.5+ points of damage due to Sharpshooter; Colossus Slayer is a potential 4.5. Horde Breaker can miss, but then Colossus Slayer can hit a target that isn't damaged yet. I certainly have seen Colossus Slayer trigger more often so far than I think Horde Breaker would have (5' spacing isn't very much) but it hasn't been important. In 5E, quantity of enemies and enemy special abilities (e.g. Mind Blast, drow poison) are the most dangerous conditions, and if Horde Breaker isn't triggering that means there's a good chance the situation isn't really dangerous.

4.5 damage per round just doesn't seem like a big deal.

That's how it looks to me at any rate. I wouldn't mind hearing why and in what sense you think Colossus Slayer is superior.

1) Consistency - it will happen almost every round as you can set it up yourself with your first attack or just keep beating on what someone else has wounded. It has 2 chances to trigger or more if you use twf.

2) Focused damage - it can be on your main target, not just on some random other guy. It also encourages focus fire from people who may not be interested in playing optimally

3) Relevant in almost every encounter. It's pretty useless against swarms of CR 1/2 monsters, except Zombies, but most CR1+ monsters will need a couple of hits or more to take down. Horde breaker is useless against solo monsters or small groups who do not happen to bunch up - most large monsters, skirmishers, ranged attackers (eg Drow or Mind Flayers ) etc.

4) Even in an ideal fight it may not trigger often. If 2 orcs decide to flank you thinking they are playing 3.5 then you can't use it. A **** DM can ensure it never triggers (which is a risk when you play AL like me - home game you can negotiate around it). In general its utility is farther out of the players control than Colossus Slayer.

The third hunter ranger option is truly terrible - far too many conditions & fails if the monster attacks you with reach but has great upsides..

This one I think is potentially good & certainly more fun than Colossus Slayer, which is super dull, but the big upsides are offset with potentially frustrating downsides. I would certainly be breaking hordes.

 

[steeldragons]

Would...and this is totally a spitball...as a houserule, do folks think it would improve the ability/make it more attractive if the feature was shifted to "...make an additional attack on another enemy within 10' of the creature you hit"? Could 5 piddlely little feet make all the difference here?

Kind of lends to the flavor of the ranger as a mobility/movement based fighter, the popular images of a ranger as swirling blades of fury through a battlefield, and the immersion ["simulation/reality"] and narrative that a strike 10' away is really only a wide step or two (+arm length +weapon length) and a swing.

I think I like that. Might use it.