I am sure this has been discussed before just wanted to know where a good thread for it may be found. Does anyone else wonder why rangers do not get bonuses to tracking? Is it because everyone can take a skill and be that good at it. I just think it would be better and make some sense. That may also imply that Druids and Wardens should as well. I may be missing some information and they do somewhere so if they do please tell me.
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Rangers and tracking
- Thread starter Belares
- Start date
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Well, they don't. If you have Nature and Perception though, and a high WIS you will be an excellent tracker. The same can be said for rogues, they get no special bonus to thievery. In each case the relevant skills are listed as class skills for the class, but thievery is only one possible aspect of a rogue, and tracking is only one possible aspect of a ranger.
I don't think it would be earth shattering if you gave your rangers a +2 on tracking rolls, but the character can always take a skill focus feat in Perception and gain that.
Think of it this way, your character can excel at the traights expected of their class, or they can use those skill/feat slots to do something else interesting with the class.
I don't think it would be earth shattering if you gave your rangers a +2 on tracking rolls, but the character can always take a skill focus feat in Perception and gain that.
Think of it this way, your character can excel at the traights expected of their class, or they can use those skill/feat slots to do something else interesting with the class.
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
I have designed a melee ranger that is essentially a wandering bladeslinger.
He doesn't have nature (opted dungeoneering) nor perception. He's an athletic and agile swordman. Tracking? Why the heck would he be good at it? He has to be dragged out of town kicking and screaming.
The Aragorn type of ranger is a stereotype and the class easily allows you to be great at it since WIS is secondary while nature and perception are class skills. But if you design a PC that wants nothing to do with it, why would he get a bonus at it? But then, if the Ranger that fits the stereotype gets a nifty bonus that takes him over the top, why wouldn't the ranger who wants nothing to do with tracking unfairly not get his own bonus at athletic or acrobatics?
Nah, leave it well enough alone.
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As an aside, I am annoyed that the rogue automatically has thievery. Why?
As you can guess, a brutal scoundrel is another option to build the wandering bladesinger and I am annoyed that he'd automatically be great at something that doesn't fit the concept.
He doesn't have nature (opted dungeoneering) nor perception. He's an athletic and agile swordman. Tracking? Why the heck would he be good at it? He has to be dragged out of town kicking and screaming.
The Aragorn type of ranger is a stereotype and the class easily allows you to be great at it since WIS is secondary while nature and perception are class skills. But if you design a PC that wants nothing to do with it, why would he get a bonus at it? But then, if the Ranger that fits the stereotype gets a nifty bonus that takes him over the top, why wouldn't the ranger who wants nothing to do with tracking unfairly not get his own bonus at athletic or acrobatics?
Nah, leave it well enough alone.
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As an aside, I am annoyed that the rogue automatically has thievery. Why?
As you can guess, a brutal scoundrel is another option to build the wandering bladesinger and I am annoyed that he'd automatically be great at something that doesn't fit the concept.
I view it as one of those things where, if you want to be a perceptive ranger (by taking the perception skill) then you're good at it. If you want to just be a ranger that focused more on combat and physical fitness (taking athletics or whatever other skills) then so be it -- it's flexibility in the already simplified skill system.
So with that logic then he is a non-wilderness ranger. That is fine but a ranger is essentially an outdoorsman so you are taking that part away. With that said it is not out of whack to give a REAL ranger an added advantage tracking. You could say as a ranger(outdoor) you get a +2 to tracking, or a ranger(underground) +2 to dungeoneering, or even a ranger (city) +2 to streetwise if you so choose. I do not think that would be too tough to do.
Also you seem to want to make classes what they are not and add your own flavor. That is cool but judge not others ideas on your own merit system.
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Smeelbo
First Post
As a referee, I might lower the DC of an outdoor tracking check if the tracker is trained in Nature, or Dungeoneering if underground, or Streetwise in an urban area. Alternately, allow a separate check against one of those skills as appropriate to gain a circumstance bonus to the Perception test.
That would reward someone who emphasized those skills, as opposed to someone who had Perception simply to spot hidden enemies, traps, and secret doors.
I would be loath to assign the bonus to the Ranger class, as other characters reasonably wish to track well. I often play a "scout," that is a ranger or a rogue multi-classed to the other. If you tied the bonus to the Ranger class, it would not come along with Warrior of the Wild. However, if a rogue takes the effort to learn Nature, I'd give the bonus to them.
Smeelbo
That would reward someone who emphasized those skills, as opposed to someone who had Perception simply to spot hidden enemies, traps, and secret doors.
I would be loath to assign the bonus to the Ranger class, as other characters reasonably wish to track well. I often play a "scout," that is a ranger or a rogue multi-classed to the other. If you tied the bonus to the Ranger class, it would not come along with Warrior of the Wild. However, if a rogue takes the effort to learn Nature, I'd give the bonus to them.
Smeelbo
ImperialParadox
First Post
There is a feat in Martial Power that is only avaliable to rangers and it gives a substantial boost to their tracking skills. This feat gives you the option of making the ranger a top-notch tracker again.
I get it as far as wanting to be able to track with the perception skill for other classes. I am just thinking in the 3.0/5 mode of rangers and tracking.
Thanks ImperialParadox I see it as expert tracker pg 135 in MP. That is what i was looking for anyway. LOL
Well the short answer to your general question is ...
no, you're not missing anything. noncombat stuff has been boiled down to skills and skills are supposed to be 'equally good for any character that takes it regardless of class' (i.e. if you take arcana, you can detect magic as well as a wizard of the same int score)
To modify this, if that is what you wish to do, i'd go for a simple approach, not far off from what Smeelbo has said (though his version involved another roll) -- if the tracks are in the wilderness and the tracker is trained in nature, then just give a +2 circumstance bonus to his own perception check to track. same goes with if underground and tracker trained in dungeoneering, or in a city and trained in streetwise - that leaves it open for 'anyone as long as you have the skills' or if you did want to tie it to rangers only then give rangers a class feature of +3 perception when tracking (kind of like skill focus but only for tracking). but all this is really house rules i guess.
And, as ImperialParadox pointed out, there is apparently a feat in Martial Power just for rangers to improve specifically this. (but i haven't seen it so don't know those details).
