Rangers, the way I'm altering them [update 27th of Dec - wildnerness master]

[Liquide]

OK for a starter please evaluate this class as it was a class on its own, not an alt.ranger since I don't want this to become a flamefest. This is in no way the ranger that is detailed in the PHB it is instead how I have chosen to modify the ranger for our (my) campaign world. So please let it stand and fall on its own merits, and compare it to the power level of other classes, but not the ranger itself since all other classes BUT the ranger as presented in the PHB exist.

So point out the ups and downs, major flaws and maybe even the good stuff about this. I haven't play-tested it yet and the reason I made an Alt.ranger is since a player asked me to, so I want you to evaluate it for balance issues.

So help me away here lads

_______________________________

RANGER

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills: The ranger's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Animal Empathy (Cha, exclusive skill), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex), and Wilderness Lore (Wis). The ranger gets 4 + Int modifier x4 skill points at level 1 and 4 + Int modifer for each level thereafter.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields.

TABLE: The Ranger

[COLOR=burlywood]
        Base           Fort    Ref     Will
Level   Attack Bonus   Save    Save    Save    Special
-----   ------------   ----    ----    ----    -------
1       +1             +2      +0      +0      Track, 1st favored enemy,
                                               1st favored terrain
2       +2             +3      +0      +0      Bonus Feat
3       +3             +3      +1      +1      Wilderness Stride
4       +4             +4      +1      +1      Trackless Step
5       +5             +4      +1      +1      2nd favored enemy
6       +6/+1          +5      +2      +2      2nd favored terrain
7       +7/+2          +5      +2      +2      Wilderness Master +1
8       +8/+3          +6      +2      +2      Bonus Feat
9       +9/+4          +6      +3      +3      
10      +10/+5         +7      +3      +3      3rd favored enemy      
11      +11/+6/+1      +7      +3      +3      
12      +12/+7/+2      +8      +4      +4      3rd favored terrain
13      +13/+8/+3      +8      +4      +4      
14      +14/+9/+4      +9      +4      +4      Bonus Feat
15      +15/+10/+5     +9      +5      +5      4th favored enemy      
16      +16/+11/+6/+1  +10     +5      +5      Wilderness Master +2
17      +17/+12/+7/+2  +10     +5      +5      
18      +18/+13/+8/+3  +11     +6      +6      4th favored terrain
19      +19/+14/+9/+4  +11     +6      +6      
20      +20/+15/+10/+5 +12     +6      +6      5th favored enemy, Bonus Feat
[/COLOR]

Track: All rangers gains Track as a bonus feat.


Favored Enemy(Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature as a favored enemy. (A ranger can only select his own race as a favored enemy if he is evil.) Due to his extensive study of his foes and training in the proper techniques for combating them, the ranger gains a +1 bonus to Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Wilderness Lore checks when using these skills against this type of creature. Likewise, he gets the same bonus to weapon damage rolls against creatures of this type. A ranger also gets the damage bonus with ranged weapons, but only against targets within 30 feet (the ranger cannot strike with deadly accuracy beyond that range). The bonus doesn't apply to damage against creatures that are incorporeal or etheral however.
At 5th level and at every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select a new favored enemy, and the bonus associated with every previously selected favored enemy goes up by +1.

Table: Ranger Favored Enemies
Type

• Aberrations
• Animals
• Beasts
• Constructs
• Dragons
• Elementals
• Fey
• Giants
• Humanoid
• Magical beasts
• Oozes
• Outsider type
• Plants
• Shapechangers
• Undead
• Vermin

* Rangers may not select "outsider" as a favored enemy, but they may select a more narrowly defined type of outsider such as "Celestial", "Demon" or "Devil". A ranger can only select his own race as a favored enemy as long as he is of a non-good alignment.


Favored terrain(Ex): At 1st level, a ranger must select a type of terrain which he dedicates as his/hers natural habitat. Due to his extensive study and familiarity with this type of terrain, the ranger gets a +1 circumstance modifer to skill checks related to the terrain. He also gains a +1 bonus to AC when they are forced to battle within their natural habitat. In addition when fighting in there favored terrain they have such familiarity with it that they can benefit from every little area of growth and shifts in the ground and are considered to have one-tenths concelment (10%) as long as they are not denied they dexterity bonus to Armor Class (AC).

At 6th Level they are allowed to chose a second favored terrain that they have become familiar with and will be granted a +1 circumstance modifer to skill checks related to the terrain. He also gains a +1 bonus to AC. They also benefit from one-tenths concelment (10%) as long as they are not denied their dexterity bonus to AC.
In addition when fighting their within their first favored terrain they now benefit from a +2 circumstance modifier and two-tenths concealment (20%). along with a +2 modifier to AC.

At 12th Level they are allowed to chose a third favored terrain that they have become familiar with and will be granted a +1 circumstance modifer to skill checks related to the terrain. He also gains a +1 bonus to AC. They also benefit from one-tenths concelment (10%) as long as they are not denied their dexterity bonus to AC.
In addition when fighting their within their second favored terrain they now benefit from a +2 circumstance modifier and two-tenths concealment (20%). along with a +2 modifier to AC.
Also when fighting within their first favored terrain they now benefit from a +3 circumstance modifier and two-tenths concealment (30%). along with a +3 modifier to AC.

At 18th Level they are allowed to chose a fourth favored terrain that they have become familiar with and will be granted a +1 circumstance modifer to skill checks related to the terrain. He also gains a +1 bonus to AC. They also benefit from one-tenths concelment (10%) as long as they are not denied their dexterity bonus to AC.
In addition when fighting their within their third favored terrain they now benefit from a +2 circumstance modifier and two-tenths concealment (20%). along with a +2 modifier to AC.
In addition when fighting their within their second favored terrain they now benefit from a +3 circumstance modifier and two-tenths concealment (30%). along with a +3 modifier to AC.
Also when fighting within their first favored terrain they now benefit from a +4 circumstance modifier and two-tenths concealment (40%). along with a +4 modifier to AC.

A ranger must study an area for a cumulative month (for all bonuses past 1st level).

Example:
1st level: ranger chooses forest.
6th Level: ranger chooses Marsh, has to study marsh and forest for a month each before respective bonuses take effect (can be done any time from 2nd level on)
12th Level: ranger chooses Plains, has to study marsh and forest and plains for a month each before respective bonuses take effect (can be done any time from 7th level on)
18th Level: ranger chooses Wetlands, has to study marsh and forest and plains and wetlands for a month each before respective bonuses take effect (can be done any time from 13th level on)


Table: Ranger Favored Terrain
Type(examples)

• Woodlands (Forests & Woods)
• Plains (Grasslands)
• Wetlands (Swamps & marshes)
• Arid/Cold (Tundra)
• Arid/Hot (Deserts)
• Mountanous (Hills, Highlands and Mountains)

Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, the ranger gets a bonus feat. The ranger gains an additional bonus feat at 8th level and every six levels thereafter (14th and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the following list: Ambidexterity, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge (Mobility, Spring Attack), Exotic Weapon Proficiency*, Expertise (Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack), Improved Critical*, Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot (Far Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run), Power Attack (Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Sunder, Great Cleave), Quick Draw, Two- Weapon Fighting (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting), Weapon Finesse*, Weapon Focus*.

Some of the bonus feats available to a ranger cannot be acquired until the ranger has gained one or more prerequisite feats; these feats are listed parenthetically after the prerequisite feat. A ranger can select feats marked with an asterisk (*) more than once, but it must be for a different weapon each time. A ranger must still meet all prerequisites for a feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.


Wilderness Stride(Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a ranger may move through, on and inside their favored terrain(s) at his or her normal speed and without suffering damage or other impairment. However, areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect the ranger. At 7th level this is increased to include all types of wilderness terrain.


Trackless Step(Ex): Starting at 4th level, a ranger leaves no trail when they move through, on and inside their favored terrain(s) and cannot be tracked. At 7th level this is increased to include all types of wilderness terrain.

Wilderness Master(Ex): At 7th level, a ranger has gained unmatched knowledge about the wilderness and how to survive and fight within these terrains. Due to his extensive study and familiarity with the wilderness, the ranger gets a +1 modifer to skill checks while in the wild. He also gains a +1 bonus to AC when they are forced to battle within this habitat. In addition when fighting in the wilderness they have such familiarity with it that they can benefit from every little area of growth and shifts in the ground and are considered to have one-tenths concelment (10%) as long as they are not denied they dexterity bonus to Armor Class (AC).

At 16th Level they now benefit from a +2 modifier and two-tenths concealment (20%). along with a +2 modifier to AC when fighting in the wilds.

The Wilderness Master ability stacks with the Favored Terrain Class abilities modifiers to determine the total bonuses.

[edit]

1. fixed some formatting issues.
2. fixed the bonus feats list after some input from the chat room.
3. took away the Concentration skill from the class skills.
4. edited Favored enemy so Humanoids is a category on its own (no need to choose a subtype) since humanoids all have a similar anatomy and therefore is just as easy to pick out vital spots on one as another humanoid.
5. Changed a bit how favored terrain scaled, also allowed the circumstance modifer to apply to skill checks aswell as AC.
6. The circumstance modifers, granted from favored terrains, max value is now capped at +3 instead of +4.
7. Favored terrain now grants concealment instead of Cover
8. edited Wilderness Stride and Trackless Step to account for more then one type of favored terrain.
9. Changed when this ranger got his first bonus feat (bumped to 2nd Level), in addition I also changed the progression of the bonus feats, second bonus feat at 6th Level and every 6th level thereafter (12th and 18th).
10. Changed the favored enemy so damage bonuses apply to non-crittable creatures aswell.
11. I included a restriction that doesn't allow them to add their bonus damage against incorporeal or etheral opponents instead of the normal non-crit restriction.
12. Removed Urban from their favored terrain list.
13. Changed the favored terrain to match up with MissingDividends version of it, also make it more clear now.
14. Changed the progression for the bonus feats (2nd, 8th, 14th and 20th).
15. Added the Wildeness Master(Ex) ability so the class becomes less DM focused and more player focused.
16. Changed Trackless Step and Wilderness Stride to account for the Wilderness Master class ability.

[/edit]

 

[drdevoid]

Do we assume this ranger has the same spellcasting abilities or not? I noticed you gave Concentration as a class skill so I'm assuming that's a yes.

If you keep the spell casting, I really like it. Otherwise, the problem evaluating the worth of favored enemies/terrain rears its ugly head.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Why do you disallow favoured enemy damage on creatures such as oozes, constructs and undead (i.e. non-crittable ones)?

The favoured terrain giving cover is an interesting idea, but I find it difficult to imagine how the plains ranger finds 3/4 cover in the grasslands... Did you consider the possibility of using concealment instead? I could see an ability that gave you 10% miss chance at 2nd level and 20% at 7th level useful, and I could visualise that more easily, the ranger kicking up sand to confuse, or sliding between the long grass.

Favoured terrain as written effectively means that by 14th level a ranger could get +10 to his AC in his favoured terrain (not to mention +3 on reflex saves and immunity to AoO). This seems a little on the high side at 10th level, especially since it will easily stack with magical armour and protections.

Personally I think "bonus feats" are a poor addition to any class. What core classes use them apart from the fighter? Only the wizard who gets a metamagic/item creation feat every 5 levels. Basically all the other classes get interesting or cool "class abilities", and you would probably be better off picking suitable class abilities to give to this ranger rather than bonus feats. Good candidates could be found in the Star Wars Scout class, or the Wheel of Time Woodsman class.

Cheers

 

[Thunhus]

I think that your version of ranger is out of balance at lest in 1st level.
-track, 1st favored enemy, Favored terrain +1 and 1/4 cover, Bonus Feat

Fighter got only one bonus feat.
Fighter has same BAB and Saves.
Figter has less skill points and worse class skills.

I would drop the bonus feats to balance your ranger class.
And drop also concentration skill, because your ranger has no spellcasting abilities.

Thunhus

 

[drdevoid]

I'm going to have to disagree with Thunhus about the power level. If you take the Ranger out of his favored terrain and up against non-favored enemies, he's only half as good as a fighter. This happens all the time, you don't even really have to take the ranger out of the wild to make most of his abilities crap. And without bonus feats it takes forever to become a good archer or the dual wielder or the attuned senses (with alertness or skill focus) that are more or less the archtype. Just limit the Bonus feat selection.

 

[Jeph]

I think that your version of ranger is out of balance at lest in 1st level.

I know he said to ignore the PHB ranger, but isn't it even more out of balance at level 1?

 

[kreynolds]

Why do you disallow favoured enemy damage on creatures such as oozes, constructs and undead (i.e. non-crittable ones)?

Probably because it doesn't apply to those creatures in the first place. Or are you asking why he didn't take this class ability a little out of the box since he was customizing it anyway?

 

[Liquide]

I know he said to ignore the PHB ranger, but isn't it even more out of balance at level 1?

Well for a starters even though I customize a "new" class based on a concept that has been used in dnd for decades, have something in mind;

I'm not doing this to tweak the existing ranger into something else, I instead try to do the woodsman, the desert pathfinder or the mountaneer ranger but in a way not done before. I do a ranger that doesn't need to resort to any Spells, Spell-like effects and/or Supernatural abilites, I want to create the wilderness expert that relies on his uncanny knowledge, instincts and exceptional (in both menings of the word) of his surroundings and his surroundings inhabitants in order to survive.

And why do I post it here? Well I want to create a class that is balanced, I want input and comments in order to create this class, not to hear that it is too diffrent from the ranger nor that it is an alt.ranger. The ranger can still kick alongside this character since it is a diffrent class on the same basic concept just executioned in a diffrent way.

So what I want is solid advice on how to modify this class to be balanced towards other core class and in addition being the wilderness survivor, so hlp out and chip in with ideas, comments and tweaks so I can present a character that has its strengths and weaknesses within the limits I have presented

So chip in, I'm here for your ideas to help me out not to alternor replace an existing class just to create a new one.

-Rob

 

[Liquide]

Why do you disallow favoured enemy damage on creatures such as oozes, constructs and undead (i.e. non-crittable ones)?

Short answer: I do not want to alter an existing mechanims betyond recognition.

Long Answer: I couldn't validate that creatures that are immune to non-crits to take additional damage from the ranger since not even sneak attacks can do that. I figured that you do need an discernable anatomy in order to place your blows more efficient and therefore inflict the extra damage

However input on how to explain/create a mechanic that makes sense in game on how to solve this and I'm all listening.

The favoured terrain giving cover is an interesting idea, but I find it difficult to imagine how the plains ranger finds 3/4 cover in the grasslands... Did you consider the possibility of using concealment instead? I could see an ability that gave you 10% miss chance at 2nd level and 20% at 7th level useful, and I could visualise that more easily, the ranger kicking up sand to confuse, or sliding between the long grass.

Hmmm concealment is interesting and makes it less powergaming friendly, so please elaborate and explain in a bit more detail for me how to execute this Still the reason I chose cover is not only for the cover itself it was for but cover, AC and reflex save bonuses I chose this (so have this in mind when helping out tweaking)

Favoured terrain as written effectively means that by 14th level a ranger could get +10 to his AC in his favoured terrain (not to mention +3 on reflex saves and immunity to AoO). This seems a little on the high side at 10th level, especially since it will easily stack with magical armour and protections.

agreed, I did not think all the way on that ability and it might be a little over the top, but the flip-side of this coin is that this "ranger" is supposed to have the upper-hand on opponents that has more experience when on his home-ground that he is way too familiar with, and to know how to behave and take advantage of everything in the surroundings when fighting is something that should grant at least some quite nice bonuses when there.

Personally I think "bonus feats" are a poor addition to any class. What core classes use them apart from the fighter? Only the wizard who gets a metamagic/item creation feat every 5 levels. Basically all the other classes get interesting or cool "class abilities", and you would probably be better off picking suitable class abilities to give to this ranger rather than bonus feats. Good candidates could be found in the Star Wars Scout class, or the Wheel of Time Woodsman class.

Well I didn't want to limit the player in guiding him by the nose with their weapon choices, instead I chose the bonus feat route in order for them to mainly allow them to chose if they want to be masters at arms (Ambidexterity, Precise Shot etc) or to be able to take advante of terrain and situations (Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge etc)

Cheers

Same to you, hope to hear more input from you soon mate

-Rob

 

[kreynolds]

Short answer: I do not want to alter an existing mechanims betyond recognition.

Long Answer: I couldn't validate that creatures that are immune to non-crits to take additional damage from the ranger since not even sneak attacks can do that. I figured that you do need an discernable anatomy in order to place your blows more efficient and therefore inflict the extra damage

However input on how to explain/create a mechanic that makes sense in game on how to solve this and I'm all listening.

Actually, I might be able to give you some advice on this. One of the 'fixes' I applied to the ranger is that the bonus damage from the favored enemy bonus applies to any creature, no matter what type it is. I also allow broad creature type selection, meaning I don't make you pick a subtype. Those are the only modifications I've made to the core ranger class. I've been working on a variant ranger class, but that's something else entire. But, these two 'fixes' haven't caused me any problems and they seem to work quite well.