Rant About Recent Dungeon Magazines

[Kenpo Wolf]

My problem with Dungeon was that I was a subscriber to it when they took away the material i had paid to get and replaced it with the polyhedron material. They sent me a renewal and i sent them an email explaining why I wasn't renewing. Sqame thing with Dragon, for that matter. Now that I am not converting to 3.5 i find Dragon to be even less of a loss to me.

Now i just have to decide what to do with this extra money (I budget my D&D purchases). So far I have been buying more Goodman games and Necromancer stuff, so good for them. I still haven't spent the money for the 3.5 core rules books though. Any suggestions on what gaming materials to buy?

You want suggestions, here are mine?
1, Spycraft (AEG)
2, StarGate SG1 (AEG)
3, Babylon 5 (Mongoose)
4, Traveller D20 (?)
5, Mutants and Masterminds (Green Ronin)

If you want D&D suggestions, I can't help you there because I rarely play it no more

 

[arbados]

Hey Erik Mona:
I am one person who has never complained about any Dungeon content and I have been getting the magazine since issue 1 which I am very proud of. I keep them all tightly bound and have a subscription.

I have always hated the persons who complain about content, world specific modules vs. generic, vile content vs non-vile content and every other complaint that has graced the pages since the first issue.

However, I feel I must let you know the opinion of a long time, calm subscriber.

For the first time ever I considered cancelling my subscribtion. No I do not like the poly side and have never found it useful, however, as long as the dungeon side maintained its quality its not a problem. I do feel that the lack of modules contained in each issue is a problem and this has swayed my opinion to cancelation. WoTC does not publish modules anymore it seems and Dungeon is now my place to get them. With there being, at times, 1 module per issue that is a problem.

The worst thing was the sealed vile content. I photocopy everything I use in dungeon and then store my magazines for the future. I have never even read the vile content module because it would force me to cut open the pages!!! That is just plain silly. I buy a magazine and expect that I can read all its content without the aid of a pair of scissors!

To give an objective side to the poly content (as one who does not like it) why don't you try to eleminate the numerous new mini-games and as mentioned previously focus on a couple so that future poly parts could give supplements to these mini games that have already been produced.

I do miss the old black and white paged magazines, but understand that the magazines appearance needs to keep pace with whats on the market.

However, try and keep the contents clear and easy to read. To much design/color/mish-mosh is not a good thing. It's annoying and hard to read.

Thanks for listening and I will keep my subscribtion going to see hopeful future changes in the right direction.

 

[Erik Mona]

Thanks for the input, folks. Keep it coming.

We'll definitely be printing a larger number of adventures in the magazine in future issues. I ask that people please keep in mind that any change I make today won't show up until at least issue #104. We've got no "one adventure" issues in the meantime, but I do ask that you give me a couple issues to try to see if you like the changes I'll be implementing. They should start to appear as early as 103 and will probably be very apparent by the time we get to 105 or so. After that, I'm hoping we'll be back to a warm and happy place for everyone.

--Erik

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Wait! I've got it! Make Poly the subscriber only content! That way, I never have to subscribe or even see the accursed Poly in my Dungeon ever again! Iron-Chef, you're a genius!

Hmm. I wonder how many newstand purchasers of Poly there are? Paizo needs a readership survey. May not be feasible but I like it.

 

[Ranger REG]

Another reason the mini-games fail to work for me is that there is no support. Make them OGC, and let them grow or die on their own with third party and fan support. Another stumbling block to use them is that there are no adventures to make them easier to run! My group has no time for one-shots. If the games were of interest to us and were supported, we might try some as a campaign. I stress *might*, because most of the ones I've seen fail to make me want to have anything to do with them. I've never felt the urge to roleplay Josie & the Pussycats, Doc Savage, World War 2, Giant Robots, Cannonball Run, Buffy, TMNT, etc.

Sorry if it failed you, but it did not fail me, so who's more important, your feeling or mine?

As for OGC, I don't see the Dragon magazine staff, making more OGC material in that magazine until recently, and that's only one article. But whether it is OGC or not, it is not the gamer's concern. It's the publishers.

There are a lot people here that contributed to MECHA CRUSADE on this messageboard, on the d20 and OGL Games forum. Nothing happened to them. There is even a fansite for the PULP HEROES mini-game. It seems to take a life on its own after the issue is no longer printed.

Maybe we'll see them released as OGC, but that is up to the Paizo, the publisher.

Here's an idea to keep Poly alive AND make the D&D crowd happier...

Riiiight ... but it will be at the expense of Wizards' other customers: owners and gamers of Star Wars, d20 Modern, Call of Cthulhu, and Wheel of Time.

Again, the D&D got more periodical support than Wizards' other RPG product line, why do we need more of that, and less of the others?

I make no apology but I'm putting my foot down and drawing a line in the sand ... AS A d20 GAMER.

 

[Olive]

Whoooo!!! A whole three pages of thread to respond too!

Okay. Now I'm mad. Paizo has virtually ruined my favorite
magazine. Have you guys seen the latest few issues?
I picked up one Dungeon 101 yesterday... One 13th level Forgotten Realms adventure... And that's it. What?!?! How useless is that?

Well, I actually thought it was ok, because it's a REALLY COOL ADVENTURE!!! Seriously, I love the premise.

What I'd love to see in Dungeon:

* More, shorter adventures, side treks, and the like.

* More _flavorful_ adventures.

* Swashbuckling piratey action! Arrr!

What I'd love to see in Polyhedron:

* Follow-up!

This is all pretty good advice...

* Third-party support.

This, I'm not into. Why? Because every magazine I've ever seen try to do this has been annoying in it's style.

A few comments.

We're cutting Mini-Games to four per year. This allows us to focus on making them as close to perfect as possible and allows us the space to cover other topics such as LG, Star Wars, d20 Modern, CoC...

This is good. The mini-games are interesting but I don't get enough gaming in my current campaign to justify running anything else...

I'm working on the subscriber section.

Cool. This annoys me. I'd sub if I had the cash, but I never have enough at any given time.

Polyhedron provides unique content that you can't get elsewhere, not the least of which is LGJ, the last holdout of Greyhawk support.

Speaking of which, where is it?!?!?!!????!?!?!?!!??!!?!?!?

The first one was great, and there have been none since. I don't play in greyhawk, but pretty much everything in the LGJ since it stopped being it's own mag has been usable and useful.

And every time you run a minigame, you focus on these repetitive game-mechanical concerns, where you pretty much just rewrite the PH but with a twist.

This is so untrue. Aprart fromt he fact that lots of them have been d20 modern, they never reprint the classes, skills section etc. It's all non core stuff.

Since you have a natural conflict between Dungeon-desirerers and minigame seekers, attempt to publish more "games" that actually satisfy both. The Spelljammer and Githyanki "games" were great examples of this-- they're not so much different games as more specific games within the D&D context; they can serve as both "minigames" or splatbooks for a specific area of D&D play.

I've read an origins report that said they would do this... but i am all for it.

Anything besides yet another minigame in which I'm told that the Stealthy feat gives me +2 to Hide and +2 to Move Silently.

But Stealthy isn't in the PHB. So it's important that it's there. If Poly required the splats and FRCS to use the mini games that would suck...

Can Dungeon/Dragon magazines support Wizard's non-OGL products like Wheel of Time and CoC?

Given that a) Poly has had a d20 CoC adventure before and b) they yuse other non-OGL stuff from WotC all the time (the adventure in Dungeon 101 barely has a single core rule book monster, they're all fiend folio and MM2), I'd say yes.

Let us vote with our wallets!

Split em!

1 month poly

1 month dungeon

And let people pick if they want one, the other or both!

And then they'll both die. Wheeee.

Flakey concepts are anything not proven to be a bestseller;

Thank ghod you;re not in charge of what art gets made in the world...

No, I'm thinking of Atlas. I have intensely disliked everything d20 the company has done with the exceptions of Backdrops, Three Days To Kill and Dynasties & Demagogues. All of the other books you mention (and those you don't, such as the modules) fall into the "hated it" category with me, including Splintered Peace.

No offense dude, but you're the guy who's DM lets your whole party use one roll for initiative, so I might not take your advice on gaming products... and I won't even go into you saying the demihumans are marginalised in FR and Greyhawk. Go look at Hommet in RotToEE... every second NPC is a demihuman.

Hmm. I wonder how many newstand purchasers of Poly there are? Paizo needs a readership survey. May not be feasible but I like it.

I'm sure Paizo could compare sales to subs pretty easily...

Anyway, Erik, the real question is: when is the LGJ stuff coming back to Poly?

 

[Treebore]

Kenpo,

Thanks, i already own Traveller, been a fan since 1986. I'll check out the others at their respective company websites. I think I already have AEG bookmarked.

Erik,

Didn't realize this was a direct feedback forum when I last posted.
I would just like to add i am sorry that Paizo's decisions have led to me not buying Dungeon or Dragon, but i am afraid with the 3.5 thing ticking me off and Paizo essentially selling me a format I didn't ask for and don't want, I just have to walk away. When i have emailed you guys, they have always been very friendly and helpful. Your magazines are just something I don't want to buy any longer.

I will be keeping my eye on them to see if the format changes to something I can be happy with, but until then, good luck.

 

[Ranger REG]

That's cool, Treebore. More issues for me.

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

suggestion for Paizo messageboards

Hi Erik,

I have a suggestion... Paizo should set up messageboards where DMs can share campaign logs, additional created materials, and just talk about the content. Something like Malhavoc and Necromancer does.

I would picture something like the following structure:

General (Feedback to the editors)

Dragon
Dungeon
Polyhedron

Dungeon Shackled City Adventure Path
Dungeon adventures issues 1-70
Dungeon adventures issues 71-85
Dungeon adventures issues 85-100

Polyhedron mini-games
(Possibly breaking out the more popular games)

I think that would help improve the sense of community. And as as a DM it's very helpful to be able to participate in a group of DMs who are running the same adventure.

 

[Ranger REG]

I agree, and have been waiting for quite a while since Wizards' dropped the magazine forums.

But for now, EN World messageboard will serve as a temporary home.