[Rant]Anyone else annoyed to hell with Wizards "no novel discussion in our boards"

[Mystery Man]

If anyone knows why they made this, whether there was something that all but forced them to do it, I'd like to know (If I knew they had good reasons for doing so, I might be less annoyed)

Wizo_Bigsister had a faq up on a sticky for a time but it's not there anymore. I've recieved warnings from her for the barest niggling mention of a novel so I rarely post there now. Frankly, I think she's insane. As far as being annoyed no, I could care less, personally the only time I ever posted there (novel board) was to say "hey, nice job." to which I would get no reply because the authors wouldn't come near those boards for fear of their lives. Now at candlkeep if I say "hey, nice job" I get a "thanks" from the author. Which is cool.

 

[Troll Wizard]

...
This is interesting because it raises a question about where "boundaries" are drawn...

It seems that FR novels are heavily connected to FR campaign materials (I do not KNOW this for certain, as I do not run a FR campaign, but this is my impression).

So how do the Wizboard people draw the line between "novel discussions" and "campaign discussions"

From what I "understand" if you have a question about a character (or location, magic item, etc.) you read about in a novel and are seeking additional information, you must ask your question in the context relating to the game books and game mechanics information only. Asking where and what happens to that character in other novels is a big no-no.

Personally I don't have a problem with it, and the problem children that kept harassing and attacking the authors finally got banned or got bored and left.

This is not just a problem with WOTC, the problem are the individuals that get to attached to a book character and hate it when the authors kills or change their fav character's goals/path in the novels. No author should be subject to attacks because of his choice of plots, you may not agree with what happens but it is his story he wrote it not the reader. Enjoy it, if you don't like then don't buy the books.
One of my favorite authors is David Weber and his best selling series is the Honor Harrington universe of books. When people find out that Weber has already planned to kill off Honor Harrington the near the end of the series, some of the newer fans boo, hiss.... on Baen Books discussion boards. This is not good as Weber is famous for answering questions on his novel's universe, thus troublemakers are not welcomed as no one wants to drive Weber away and lose getting his snerks for forthcoming books.

 

[Numion]

Well, those rules I quoted basically said "Don't criticize the novels", not "Don't stalk the authors". This tells me that the problem was more about thin skin than authors being threatened.

Not that threats were below friggin' D&D novel messageboards!

People get worked up for ehrm .. .. both authors and fans alike, I guess.

 

[Numion]

Enjoy it, if you don't like then don't buy the books.

Cool. Let's all abide to this and close the ENWorld for good. No need to discuss RPG books either - it's the authors book and we might hurt his / her feelings.

/sarcasm

My point: personal attacks are not cool, but surely when we've banned those users that do that, we'll have room for actual praise, discussion and criticism of different books? Surely not even the authors want that nobody discussed their books?

 

[diaglo]

...personally the only time I ever posted there (novel board) was to say "hey, nice job."

the older version of that forum was better.

i would post there and get replies almost immediately from the authors.

it started to go downhill as the number of posters on the WotC board reached 30000. a few bad apples can spoil the barrel.

posts about Ed Greenwood's thing for young nekked babes. or about whether or not Elaine would have her half-elven maid raped... or other goo... just soured the place.

 

[Troll Wizard]

Cool. Let's all abide to this and close the ENWorld for good. No need to discuss RPG books either - it's the authors book and we might hurt his / her feelings.

/sarcasm

My point: personal attacks are not cool, but surely when we've banned those users that do that, we'll have room for actual praise, discussion and criticism of different books? Surely not even the authors want that nobody discussed their books?

Alas too many feel that personally attacking the author is discussing the book... IMO for what its worth, don't you feel novel discussion should be something along the lines/format that was used in H.S. or college when discussing Mark Twain, Edgar Allen Poe, Tolkien, etc... books? Did people in class verbally attack the author because the story did not meet their expectations? IMO there is a world of difference between verbally attacking author and discussing the content of the book; interaction of the characters, agenda of the characters, the characterizations, plots, hardware, mechanics, etc...
Getting feedback on the background story from the author is great, often (hell most times) the original manuscript is significantly larger than the finished novel. Much of the background story gets chopped by the editors for various reasons. So discussion boards are typically the only place to get some of the background story that got cut form the book. So it’s a real shame for the author to be verbally attacked by individuals because the story did not cater to their expectations. So what do you expect the author to do? Some retort back but most don't come to boards to get into flamefests, it just not productive.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

From what I "understand" if you have a question about a character (or location, magic item, etc.) you read about in a novel and are seeking additional information, you must ask your question in the context relating to the game books and game mechanics information only. Asking where and what happens to that character in other novels is a big no-no.

Personally I don't have a problem with it, and the problem children that kept harassing and attacking the authors finally got banned or got bored and left.

This is not just a problem with WOTC, the problem are the individuals that get to attached to a book character and hate it when the authors kills or change their fav character's goals/path in the novels. No author should be subject to attacks because of his choice of plots, you may not agree with what happens but it is his story he wrote it not the reader. Enjoy it, if you don't like then don't buy the books.
One of my favorite authors is David Weber and his best selling series is the Honor Harrington universe of books. When people find out that Weber has already planned to kill off Honor Harrington the near the end of the series, some of the newer fans boo, hiss.... on Baen Books discussion boards. This is not good as Weber is famous for answering questions on his novel's universe, thus troublemakers are not welcomed as no one wants to drive Weber away and lose getting his snerks for forthcoming books.

Actually, I'm a long term fan of the Honor Harrington series and that news just made me quiver with shock and outrage. For about 30 seconds. Then I realized - what would I do as the author? She can't hardly go any higher... oh wait, make her a martyr

So I'll be sure to go and boo and hiss on those boards (j/k)

Seriously though - what y'all are up against over on the WOTC boards is a stagnating community run by a corporation that's gotten too big to handle itself properly.

Censorship in the modern world follows the same guidelines as any problem solving done by our societies. Identify the symptoms, and treat them by suppressing everything.

Problem with novels being discussed too liberally - remove all mention of novels on the board. Never mind that they can FREELY discuss such elsewhere - and will - just close it down here so that the authors aren't exposed to the criticisms and keep doing what we want them to do...

Is it really that simple? Or did they perhaps also not want authors to strike a friendship up with the community at large? Oh look, our authors are interacting 'directly' with the people that buy from them... we, the middleman, are getting left on the street!!!


Regardless - censhorship is a bad, bad, evil thing. History teaches that - for those of us who care about history anyway. However, whenever the authorities grow to a certain size, they become so paranoid that they just completely block out everything that composes the barest hint of a potential threat.

And it's not always just blocking out the information entirely - all to often it's biasing or 'slanting' the information to more positive or negative directions. Go watch foreign countries news for a week and compare it to your own. It's quite startling actually.


So what if they don't want novels discussed there? ::shrug:: There are lotsa forums on the internet to do such things in. Heck, strike up conversations with those forum owners and they'll link each others sites together, forming a larger community in total than silly, stuffy, WOTC forums.


And If I sound bitter about WOTC - well, I don't intend to flame and I'll apologize for my bitter tone. Bad experiences and all that.


Long Live ENWORLD!

 

[talinthas]

well, the dragonlance novel boards were the model of good discussion and friendliness, and when they shut us down, there was a lot of uproar, at least till DL.com picked up the slack.

However, it seems that the rules have been loosened a little, as a handful of novel threads have been allowed to exist this past month, including a few blatently baiting the anti novel ban. I think that as long as people keep it clean, its ok (at least on the DL boards)

 

[Knight Otu]

I certainly understand the decisions of the Wizos, though it is by no means an ideal solution.

I've stopped reading (and in one case, posting to) a few german message boards because of the behaviour some of the "fans" were showing.

"Obviously, these characters have been introduced for the teen crowd!"
"These changes have officially killed the series, and now we get a whole new series!"
"It cannot work this way!"
"The characters don't act as their experience should dictate!"
"You're building up too slow!"
"You're putting out too much info too fast!"
etc...

Author: "Trust us, we know what we are doing."
"Fan": "See how arrogant this guy is?!"

 

[jester47]

Rules!! I hate stinkin' rules! Let anarchy reign!! (On alternate Tuesday mornings from 8-8:15 am, excluding holidays.)

Seriously, this is a no-win scenario. There's got to be a better solution...

There is. In the computer security field what WotC has set up is called a Blacklist. Whitelists are far more effective. Its easier to describe the behevior you want then to make a big list of things you can't do. ENWorlds Grandmother Clause is a great example of a whitelist, its simply and easily dictates how people on the boards are expected to behave. Combined with a simple blacklist (no politics, no religion) and some good moderators, we have been blessed with a great community.

Aaron.