(Rant) I don't like variable conditional modifiers

[sniffles]

So I'm playing an elf wizard, using the elf wizard substitution levels from Races of the Wild.

The alternative elf wizard's familiar replaces Deliver Touch Spells and Speak With Others of Its Kind with the Natural Link ability, which doubles whatever benefit the familiar gives to the wizard.

I've taken Improved Familiar and my familiar is a celestial hawk. It gives my PC the same bonus as a normal hawk, +3 to Spot checks. This, according to the substitution level info, doubles as long as my familiar is within reach.

From my point of view, this means I'm going to constantly have to keep track of exactly where my familiar is at all times, so I can figure out whether I'm getting my +6 bonus or not. And the ability description goes on to say that if my familiar is more than a mile away I don't get any bonus at all, so if I send my familiar off to scout and say, cast chain of eyes on it (I forget what the range of that is, so just assume for discussion's sake that it's more than a mile), I have to remember that my Spot modifier goes way down.

I was also looking at the conditional modifiers for spellcasting, such as vigorous or violent motion. At least I can make a cheat sheet for that, but it bugs me that it's all adjusted by spell level. I'd rather just see a static DC for those conditions.

There, rant over. If anyone has any suggestions how to make it easier to manage such variable conditional modifiers, I'm all eyes.

 

[EricNoah]

Yeah, I'm careful not to take feats that do that to me -- I'm usually not "with it" enough to remember the conditional stuff. It's even worse as DM. I'm sure many of us have a house rule about Dodge being on all the time, for example.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

This is why I try to avoid spells, feats, and other abilities that work similarly -- too much bookkeeping.

I tend to work out attack & defense routines in advance for things like combat expertise and power attack, so I don't have to calculate them on the fly. It restricts me to fewer options (I might typically only work out +2 power attack, for charging, and full power attack, for example) but speeds gameplay.

 

[EricNoah]

Yup, I do the same thing. I have my 5 point and 10 point power attack values written down.

 

[Voadam]

So I'm playing an elf wizard, using the elf wizard substitution levels from Races of the Wild.

The alternative elf wizard's familiar replaces Deliver Touch Spells and Speak With Others of Its Kind with the Natural Link ability, which doubles whatever benefit the familiar gives to the wizard.

I've taken Improved Familiar and my familiar is a celestial hawk. It gives my PC the same bonus as a normal hawk, +3 to Spot checks. This, according to the substitution level info, doubles as long as my familiar is within reach.

From my point of view, this means I'm going to constantly have to keep track of exactly where my familiar is at all times, so I can figure out whether I'm getting my +6 bonus or not. And the ability description goes on to say that if my familiar is more than a mile away I don't get any bonus at all, so if I send my familiar off to scout and say, cast chain of eyes on it (I forget what the range of that is, so just assume for discussion's sake that it's more than a mile), I have to remember that my Spot modifier goes way down.

I was also looking at the conditional modifiers for spellcasting, such as vigorous or violent motion. At least I can make a cheat sheet for that, but it bugs me that it's all adjusted by spell level. I'd rather just see a static DC for those conditions.

There, rant over. If anyone has any suggestions how to make it easier to manage such variable conditional modifiers, I'm all eyes.

I hate them too.

Avoid, avoid, and house rule when your the DM.

Dodge is always a +1 to AC in my game.

None of the barbarians, fighters, or paladins I've ever played as a PC have power attack or expertise.

Extra rage (from Complete Warrior) then Iron Will are my go tos for barbarians.

I also seem to take Combat Reflexes a lot (usually with reach weapons) and Hold the Line (to get an AoO when charged).

For a wizard I like the no familiar specialist options from UA.

 

[delericho]

I agree. These modifiers, and especially changeable modifiers, are one of the biggest weaknesses of the existing edition.

If I were in charge of a "3.75e", the first thing on the chopping block would be the multitude of modifier names. The second thing would be many, if not all, of these minor bonuses that only apply in a very small number of situations: the dwarf and gnome bonuses on attack rolls vs goblinoids, the dwarf bonus on appraising stone and metal, any synergy bonus that only applies sometimes (actually, I'd remove all fixed synergies, and leave that to the DM to adjudicate).

However, there is a place for conditional modifiers. I don't think simply removing the buffs is an appropriate answer, for example, and I think Power Attack should probably remain something that the player can configure. It's a matter of managing the complexity, rather than removing it outright.

 

[Cor Azer]

Yeah, I'm careful not to take feats that do that to me -- I'm usually not "with it" enough to remember the conditional stuff. It's even worse as DM. I'm sure many of us have a house rule about Dodge being on all the time, for example.

Well... it's not a house rule per say, but it does happen.

 

[blargney the second]

Yeah, conditional modifiers are le suck. I find them particularly irksome on saving throws.
-blarg

ps - One reason I like warforged: although strong, you have to admit that immunities are vastly simpler to run than conditional modifiers!

 

[sniffles]

This is why I try to avoid spells, feats, and other abilities that work similarly -- too much bookkeeping.

I tend to work out attack & defense routines in advance for things like combat expertise and power attack, so I don't have to calculate them on the fly. It restricts me to fewer options (I might typically only work out +2 power attack, for charging, and full power attack, for example) but speeds gameplay.

I've got a friend whose character has Power Attack, and also has levels in barbarian.

He made himself a sort of spreadsheet of his attack bonus dependent on how much he puts into his Power Attack and whether or not his character is raging at the time.

I need to talk with my GM about the variable modifier issue. He's pretty easygoing, so I wouldn't be surprised if he permits me to apply the bonus to Spot all the time, regardless of whether my familiar is within reach or not.

 

[Klaus]

So I'm playing an elf wizard, using the elf wizard substitution levels from Races of the Wild.

The alternative elf wizard's familiar replaces Deliver Touch Spells and Speak With Others of Its Kind with the Natural Link ability, which doubles whatever benefit the familiar gives to the wizard.

I've taken Improved Familiar and my familiar is a celestial hawk. It gives my PC the same bonus as a normal hawk, +3 to Spot checks. This, according to the substitution level info, doubles as long as my familiar is within reach.

From my point of view, this means I'm going to constantly have to keep track of exactly where my familiar is at all times, so I can figure out whether I'm getting my +6 bonus or not. And the ability description goes on to say that if my familiar is more than a mile away I don't get any bonus at all, so if I send my familiar off to scout and say, cast chain of eyes on it (I forget what the range of that is, so just assume for discussion's sake that it's more than a mile), I have to remember that my Spot modifier goes way down.

I was also looking at the conditional modifiers for spellcasting, such as vigorous or violent motion. At least I can make a cheat sheet for that, but it bugs me that it's all adjusted by spell level. I'd rather just see a static DC for those conditions.

There, rant over. If anyone has any suggestions how to make it easier to manage such variable conditional modifiers, I'm all eyes.

Since it's an avian, it's actually rather easy:

You have a +3 bonus to Spot during daylight hours. If you reeeeally need to find something, call the hawk to roost on your arm and get another +3. In fact, have the hawk use the Aid Another action for an additional +2!

Spot +10 (+13 daylight, +16 arm, +18 aid)

Re: Power Attack: spreadsheet? Nonsense! The only true way to do Power Attack is "All Power Attack, All The Time"!