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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 2252459" data-attributes="member: 94">I've formed this opinion myself over many years, and will try to integrate some of the things I've read in this thread.Grim and gritty essentially means that the player is able to identify with the character and the world, accomplished through consistent verisimilitude/suspension of disbelief.This doesn't mean that magic has to be non-existent, but it must always be aware of the verisimilitude of the world.This doesn't mean that death and danger have to be everywhere, but also aware of the verisimilitude of the world.If you, the player, can accept your character taking a crossbow bolt to the chest without flinching, or falling off a cliff and walking away, or even being raised from the dead-- that is to say, if these things can be integrated by the DM in such a way that you, the player, can maintain your belief in the world-- then they very well may be appropriate to a GnG game. (When they appear rarely, or are skillfully integrated, they may also be appropriate to an otherwise "low magic" or "grim and gritty" work of fiction.)I don't think this is the experience of most players, however. We want a game with more points in common with the real world than there are departures.With regards to Iron Lore:Iron Lore doesn't look like it's really trying to go that route. It seems to me that they're still trying to deliver a Monte Cook-style gaming experience-- very high magic, high action, high fantasy; it's just that the magic is intrinsic to the characters as opposed to their gear. To a dedicated GnG player, it doesn't really matter to us whether a character has a bow that enables him to create an Arrow Ladder to clamber up a cliff, or whether the character can perform this stunt through skill no matter what bow he picks up. The very existence of the stunt (among others) strains verisimilitude. If this is meant to emulate Conan, it's the Conan of Hollywood (and "Conan the Destroyer," at that), not the Conan of REH.</blockquote>

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