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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 2252598" data-attributes="member: 2205">GnG is little more than a prejudice, because you can't get a straight answer on what it means?That's absurd.  Of course you can't get a straight answer; it's a nebulous concept that has to do with an aesthetic, and you want it to be something else.  You want it to be a concrete thing that can be defined mechanically in game.  That's a quixotic pursuit, though -- since it's a nebulous, vague aesthetic, naturally fans of it will have completely different mechanisms for applying it.I believe it was hong, actually, in one of his rare serious moments (which, when they do occur, tend to dazzle me with his oft-concealed brilliance) who summarized it as the level of wahoo you're able to wrap your brain around.  To fans of the GnG aestheic, D&D just has way too much wahoo for us to do much more than raise our eyebrow at it and say, WTF? at especially high level hijinks that seem to be a matter of course for the game.I think the simplest solution is often the best.  Look up grim in the dictionary.  Here's a cut and paste from dictionary.com:grim adj. grim·mer, grim·mest <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Unrelenting; rigid. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Uninviting or unnerving in aspect; forbidding: “undoubtedly the grimmest part of him was his iron claw” (J.M. Barrie). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Ghastly; sinister: “He made a grim jest at the horrifying nature of his wound” (Reginald Pound). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Dismal; gloomy: a grim, rainy day. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Ferocious; savage: the grim advance of the pillaging army.</li> </ol>To me, that sums it up pretty well.  I like GnG for the same reason I like actual medieval history, and for the same reason I like horror.  It's more grounded in something that makes sense.  It allows me to identify with the characters.  It plays to my nature as a jaded, cynical bastard.  It doesn't have more wahoo than I can get my head around.As for the notion that GnG fans are "prejudiced" against D&D, that's almost insulting.  Do you really think that GnG gamers are unfamiliar with D&D and are making judgements that are not based on their personal experiences with the game?  You could maybe make a case that I'm prejudiced against Exalted, because I don't want an anime feeling game, I don't like the presumed level of wahoo, and I don't like what I know about the conventions of the game.  But I've been playing D&D for years, and so have most GnG fans I know.  They get that way after long exposure to D&D, and growing dissatisfaction with the game.  That's not prejudice.  That's postjudice, based on long, personal experience.If you want to talk about prejudice, you might want to check your own tone.  You even infer that folks who are familiar with high fantasy but who prefer GnG must not have read the high fantasy "properly."  Apparently, to you, high fantasy is so absolutely superior, that the only explanation why someone would not prefer it is that they can't get it, or are just prejudiced against it.  That's a pretty absurd bending of logic there to bolster up your own opinion.  Is it not possible to simply say that some folks don't have a taste for D&D levels of wahoo and leave it at that?</blockquote>

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