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Message: <blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 2252980" data-attributes="member: 3400">I think the way this discussion is developing there is more than one way to give a campaign GnGness. 1) GnG through game mechanics2) GnG through setting and toneGnG game mechanics are ones that tend to increase lethality for PCs along a broad front - fixed and relatively low hit points, low powered weapons, low powered offensive magic, rules for imposing consequences for certain kinds of actions (crippling rules, infections, etc). They also tend to have relatively limited ways for PCs to advance above the normals around them, keeping the average NPC on the street (or small groups of NPCs on the street) a viable threat.GnG setting and tone is, I think, a bit easier to identify. Grey morality rather than black and white. Characters with notable character flaws. Troubled times in dangerous settings.By contrast, there are game mechanics and setting/tone qualities that don't contribute or work against GnG. I think character abilities that take PCs well beyond the ability of normals to threaten them except in outrageously huge numbers (like in D&D) tend to work against GnG. Black and white morality also tends to work against GnG because there are few reasons to question motivations. Either it's good or it's evil, the choice is a no-brainer.Games/campaigns that unite GnG game mechanics with setting and tone are, I think, pretty easy to identify. Games that are GnG in one area, but not in the other, are subject to debate. It would depend on what you consider more important, the setting and tone or the mechanics, and just how much the one works against the other. For example, most CoC campaigns qualify as GnG using the Chaosium rules. Lethality is high, PCs remain threatenable by just about anything, setting is dark and grim. CoC using d20 is a little less clearly GnG because there are mechanics in it working against GnG. I don't think these overwhelm the power of the setting, but it's really not the same level of GnG as the original game.A game based on Thieves' World would have a GnG setting and tone (the only characters aguably not really threatenable by normals are few... Tempus (and even he can be bested), Enas Yorl (and we all know he's cursed too)). Using something like Runequest's rules would add GnG-friendly mechanics. Using D&D's would detract a little, hopefully not so much to be a problem. Adjusting a few rules and spell lists here and there would help. Thieves' World with Toon rules... not GnG.</blockquote>

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