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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rodrigo Istalindir" data-source="post: 2255821" data-attributes="member: 2810">I would argue that 'Sin City' is not 'GnG' in game terms; it is pulp or noir.  Getting shot 20 times, falling out of a 5 story window, getting hit by a car, and walking away from it is neither grim nor gritty in game terms, no matter how dank and desperate the atmosphere.GnG to me  requires a much smaller difference in ability between base-line humans and very experienced characters (be that expressed in levels, earned points, whatever) than the difference that occurs in stock D&D.  For better or worse, stock D&D is pretty much the reference point.    It's a continuum, where I'd place superhero games at one end and something like 'Recon' at the other.I would also argue  that the presence of action/force/etc points pushes a game to away from the grimmer and grittier end of things.  (Stop glaring at me, Wulf  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> )  See, what we need is a global gaming congress where we can debate these terms and establish our own IEEE like standards.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />I would submit that in order for a game to be considered GnG, it needs most of the following:* it is possible for a standard base-line entity to kill an experienced character no less than 1 out of a hundred times.* characters face the real possibility of death through natural means (exposure, drowning, falling)* characters that face lesser opponents who have gotten the drop on them have a reason to be afraid (the 3 crossbows aimed at you scenario)* death is permanent* the rules of physics apply</blockquote>

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