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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Inspiration_Seeker" data-source="post: 2279386" data-attributes="member: 32566">I've been invited over from a completely different set of forums to join this discussion. I hope that nobody minds my intrusion.First, there's something I have to correct before moving on. Joshua Dyal said the following:  The original BRP system of CoC is skill-based. You have a chance of improving a skill every time you use it, and it becomes harder to improve that skill as you get better at it. <shrug> This does not convert well with the latter d20 version, where you must level up (by presumably shooting at cultists) to get the skill points to improve your skills.First, I think I need to note that grim and gritty are independent of each other. It's quite possible to have a grim game that isn't gritty (as previously noted), and equally possible to have a gritty game that isn't grim. Nearly all my games are gritty, but only a few are grim. So I'll focus on what a game needs, IMO, to be gritty. Gritty isn’t merely a power level, although it involves that. It’s an expectation of how the world works.The game system must model reality. I cannot overemphasize this point. <grin> Which is a good thing, because I'm about to beat it to death.A sword through the heart, is still a sword through the heart. How it happened is immaterial. Whether it was thrust from behind by a skilled thief, from in front by a callow youth, or merely a sword swallowing exhibition coinciding with a case of the hiccups, the result is the same. A sharp implement designed for killing people is something to be careful of.Physics must relate to reality. It doesn't matter how tough you are, jumping off a 100' ft cliff on to sharp rocks is a bad idea.There is only so much that the human body is physically capable of. Slap an Olympic-level long jumper in armor, put a loaded knapsack on his back, and see how far he can jump. Don't expect your character to be able to do better.A point of diminishing returns. Mastering something is hard. There comes a point where you are expending more and more effort to achieve smaller and smaller gains in competence. A chance of failure. It doesn't matter how sneaky your thief is, he's human and fallible. Attempting to sneak past a series of alert guards (regardless of respective levels) should be a very tense episode.Consequences must be lasting. Death is the most obvious, but maiming, appearance, sanity, reputation, wealth and loved ones all fall under the same requirements.No man is an island. The character isn't often an orphan, and even if he was, *somebody* raised him. He depends on others, and others depend on him in turn. He probably has a job, rent, bills, and hope of getting both a wife and a permanent place to live. <shrug> Characters that willingly drop everything to "go adventuring" probably aren't right in the head, are actively running away from something, or have a very compelling reason.The rules applying to PCs and NPCs must be the same. For instance, some systems, it's amazingly hard to rationalize what class and level such a "stock" character as a bartender should be, what skills he possesses, at what level of mastery, and by what mechanisms he improves them. It's instead, simply assumed that the bartender is of little interest, and a certainty that nobody would ever want to *play* one.The gameworld must be internally consistent. I'll pick on D&D for an example. Monks wield "peasant weapons", but the peasants themselves are specifically referred to as "European peasants". So why are Monks using eastern martial arts weapons? Why not flails, pitchforks, scythes, sickles, daggers, and bills instead?The necessities of life cannot be ignored. Take food and water with you when you go adventuring. You’ll need them. Don’t expect to be able to sleep just anywhere. And be careful with your money. Getting more can be extremely difficult. Try to avoid people dying of strange diseases. And mysterious men rarely, if ever, go into a bar looking to hire you for some uncertain purpose only darkly hinted at.You aren’t a pawn of fate. You may have delusions in that regard, but your choices, and their consequences, are all up to you. Likewise, don’t expect the gods to intervene on your behalf.You will not be saving the world. If the world required saving every X years by a party of adventurers, it would long since have been destroyed. Kingdoms may fall. Genocides may occur. But the world will keep right on spinning, and not even notice.Good and evil are fluid concepts. You may be able to detect when somebody wishes you ill, but that’s about it. A person can be said to be "good" based upon their actions, and very well may be. But there is no way to know for certain, and good people can strongly believe diametrically opposed things. Or do incredibly harmful things out of the best of intentions.Encounters will not scale as the party increases in power. After adventuring for a while, you’re not going to suddenly stop encountering goblins and start encountering gnolls instead. At least, not without some compelling reason for this to be the case.Magical travel is the stuff of legends. Don’t expect to ever own a flying carpet, and forget about going Bamf. Life is a trade-off. Becoming good at one thing, means not getting good at something else. Powerful magic will have equally powerful drawbacks/costs. One-Eye’s spear took years of crafting. Nearly every magical item mentioned in the Silmarillion has a cost associated with it, but few more than the sword Anglachel/Gurthang.Being good at something is its own drawback. If you are focused on fighting, you will probably enter fights you shouldn’t. If you’re good at talking yourself out of trouble, you will probably keep talking long after you should have started running. If you are good at magic, you will tend to overlook mundane solutions.Being outnumbered is a very bad thing. Avoid it at all costs.Being ambushed is a very bad thing. Avoid it at all costs.<shrug> As you can tell, level-based game systems, and D&D in particular, don’t readily lend themselves to this type of gameworld. But a skill-based system like CoC/Runequest’s BRP, CORPS or GURPS works wonderfully.</blockquote>

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