[Rant] Screw Canon!

[Pants]

You know what I'm really tired of? Canon and Core D&D.

Despite being very, very generic 'Core' D&D still has a nice, vocal following who seem to slam new ideas just because 'Core D&D doesn't work that way.' You know what, the Core assumptions of D&D suck. Screw them. I'd rather have new ideas that push the game in new directions rather than have the designers step back and say 'Whoa, I can't do that! That's not how things work in Core D&D.'

And the really weird thing is are the fans. So, WotC releases a new book that has some new Gods, a few PrC's with organizations attached, some new monsters, and a little flavor text. Now, Greyhawk being the 'Core' D&D setting, you'd assume that this might make some GH fans angry. 'This organization doesn't belong in GH!', 'These Gods don't exist in GH!', 'These monsters shouldn't exist in Greyhawk!' should be the normal outcry whenever a new book is released, yet, there really isn't much outcry at all (usually).

Maybe this has to do with the fact that most people understand that the 'Core' setting of Greyhawk exists as a sort of amorphous blob that is supposed to be shaped in whichever way the DM sees fit. Maybe the DM has these gods, and those organizations, and those monsters over there ARE possible in his/her Core setting.

However, back when Libris Mortis was released, there was a huge outcry by the Planar Fans about two miniscule things; the Necromental Template (an undead elemental basically) and the Lichfiend Template (a Fiend that becomes a Lich). Now, while most of us know that the Core setting for D&D is the Great Wheel, not everyone knows or cares about the minutia with which the multiverse works. In the Great Wheel, Necromentals and Lichfiends shouldn't be possible. But, what I don't get is if the GH fans assume that most stuff printed in the books isn't really GH or doesn't mesh well with preexisting canon, they generally don't raise a fuss. Yet the planar fans DO whenever some small, stupid rule about how the Great Wheel works is broken.

I ask myself, why?

Having not gotten an answer from myself and generally not interested in debating with myself the echelons of fanboyism, I'm left with only one alternative. Please, for godsakes stop whining and realize that not everyone plays the same game as you.

Not everyone uses the Great Wheel and I certainly don't want companies to hold back on their ideas 'because Core D&D doesn't work that way.' Maybe my brain is wired differently, but I see everything as a building block in order to make my game be unique. I'll steal liberally from Green Ronin books, Privateer Press Books, Scarred Lands books, and WotC books in order to build my world the way I want to. Sometimes things work differently in my world than in Core D&D. Maybe there's no Ranger class, maybe Clerics worship ancestral spirits, maybe Minotaurs are gun-toting badasses with a penchant for Law and Goodness.

So yeah, screw Canon and Core assumptions. Give me more undead Elementals, Blood Fiends, and Lichfiends. Give me more interesting and unique options for which to make my game more memorable. Don't be held in check by what you perceive as 'restrictions' placed upon the game by past products. Innovate and surpass those restrictions, they suck anyway.

Kudos to every company that does something different. They may not always succeed, but at least they try.

 

[Ranger REG]

You know what I'm really tired of? Canon and Core D&D.

Despite being very, very generic 'Core' D&D still has a nice, vocal following who seem to slam new ideas just because 'Core D&D doesn't work that way.' You know what, the Core assumptions of D&D suck. Screw them. I'd rather have new ideas that push the game in new directions rather than have the designers step back and say 'Whoa, I can't do that! That's not how things work in Core D&D.'

You mean how they tried to provide a version of the samurai class in Complete Warrior?

Or the raptoran race in Races of the Wild?

Or how they revise the map of Faerun for Forgotten Realms?

 

[Pants]

You mean how they tried to provide a version of the samurai class in Complete Warrior?

Personally, I don't care. If I don't like it, I don't use it. Simple as that.

Or the raptoran race in Races of the Wild?

Don't like them and I don't use them. I refer you to the above quote.

Or how they revise the map of Faerun for Forgotten Realms?

Completely different context.

 

[Turjan]

I've never had a problem with 'canon'. Somewhow, I doubt that most people here on EN World have. It's also a d20 board after all, and this should stand for 'open to new ideas'.

I'm not quite sure in which direction your rant targets. I don't mind changing concepts. I only mind changing concepts in a way like building a new structure with you hands while unintentionally toppling over an existing one with your butt. That's one reason why I, frex, don't like to vote in the thread with 'your favourite magic school'. It's nice that they wanted to strengthen the Conjuration school in Complete Arcane, but I absolutely loathe it that they did it by making Conjurers better at the core tasks of the Evocation school than evokers. You might hear me rambling about things like that. But that has nothing to do with canon, but with design decisions that haven't been completely thought through.

 

[BSF]

I hadn't really noticed the "echelons of fanboyism" whining about what's canon. I see lots of discussion about design. My biggest gripe about WotC is how little OGC they release. It would be cool to see people produce adventures using new monsters. Or to see NPCs using new classes. But it doesn't happen since WotC doesn't allow it to. Other than that, I borrow and mix as much as I want for my homebrew.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmmm, I seem to have suffered a knee jerk reaction here... I was all set to defend cannon in D&D... which is not canon at all...

The Auld Grump, who has a cultural predeliction towards things what go *BOOM!*

 

[William Ronald]

I think that players and DMs come to the gaming table with different desires, different styles, and often different takes on the game. Therefore, I tend to see canon as something useful as a starting point for a journey. I think that DMs and players have to decide what works best for their groups. As long as everyone is having fun, does it really matter what level your character is, what you do to a published setting, or what rules set you use? To me, the issue is fun.

I think that game designers realize that many DMs and groups do not always play exactly by the Core Rules, which have options in themeselves. So, while I have not purchased Libris Mortis . I am not offended by the thought that someone migh have a creature which has a necromental template like a lichfiend balor or a Necromental. Indeed, if I were running a Greyhawk campaign and wanted to use these templates, I could rule that someone may have made Wee Jas or Nerull VERY, VERY ANGRY! (Nerull could punish a balor by turning him into a lich -- who will eventually decay into a demilich -- and perhaps face total oblivion instead of the immortatlity that a demon of such might would normally possess.)

As for the Complete Arcane, perhaps a way to have augmented the conjuration school might be to have included a feat for a specialist conjurer that improves the quality of summoned creatures and objects. So, perhaps similar to Augment summoning but also coverign spell effects. (Maybe a +2 bonus to the Con of Summoned Creatures and a + 1 on the DC of spells of the Conjuration school. This is a quick off the top of my head idea. It ried to make sure that it was not better than Spell Focus or Augment Summoning. So, take this idea for what it is worth.)

I think that DMs and designers have to be willing to take chances. The Core Rules can serve as a baseline so that players and DMs across different groups can have a common ground as a basis of discussions. However, this should not prevent people from creating campaigns and products that make them happy. (There are many fine D20 products out there, which have introduced new creatures and interesting rules. For example, the hero points in Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed do have some similarities witht he action points in Unearthed Arcana and Eberron.) Games and rules change over time, and it is only with the possibility of change that there is a possibility for growth.

 

[Darkness]

However, back when Libris Mortis was released, there was a huge outcry by the Planar Fans about two miniscule things; the Necromental Template (an undead elemental basically) and the Lichfiend Template (a Fiend that becomes a Lich).

Was that in EN World? A search for 'lichfiend' didn't turn up anything. Nor did a Google search. So can you tell me what they don't like about these creatures?

 

[Odhanan]

Maybe my brain is wired differently, but I see everything as a building block in order to make my game be unique.

Well we're two at least.

I guess people hold canon dear for several reasons, like: appearing smart and knowledgeable about what the rules and the written context imply, i.e. to make friends; and/or because they want the core rules to be coherent; and/or because they want to test the validity of whatever theory they have in absolute, conflicting terms.

Personally, I read the arguments but always look at them from my personal point of view/campaign. Some arguments I will consider, others I will discard. In my DM's brain, there is no such thing as "Canon", and certainly no canon I should totally respect. However, if I say to potential players I'm going to run a Forgotten Realms campaign, they might have instant expectations. I'll take care to explain that I may diverge from "official" printed text from time to time. The confidence of the players (which I work to build reciprocally speaking) does the rest.

My biggest gripe about WotC is how little OGC they release. It would be cool to see people produce adventures using new monsters. Or to see NPCs using new classes. But it doesn't happen since WotC doesn't allow it to.

Agreed. WotC takes the lead in that domain, but is not the only publisher responsible of these tendencies.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Dude, I'm a planar fanboy, and I LIKED the idea of necromentals.

The fanboys aren't my DM. They don't get to tell me what goes good in my game. I do.

They do, however, have the ability to cow WotC into ignoring cool ideas just because they'd gripe about it. I'm sure that, without the fanboy fetter, WotC would be doing a lot more innovative and interesting things....