Rapid Shot analysis by Sean Reynolds

[Krug]

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/rapidshot.html

Hmm.. so a -3 for Rapid Shot? What about for other ACs? Is 11 the kinda 'default'?

Can't we test this out on college students?

 

[Kamard]

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/rapidshot.html

Hmm.. so a -3 for Rapid Shot? What about for other ACs? Is 11 the kinda 'default'?

Can't we test this out on college students?

I am sure he picked AC 11 because it made his math easy.

 

[Azure Trance]

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/rapidshot.html

Hmm.. so a -3 for Rapid Shot? What about for other ACs? Is 11 the kinda 'default'?

Can't we test this out on college students?

No, the University threatened us with prosecution if we tried to use them as test subjects again after the pineapple incident.



We could, however, try the town down the road. I think they have a community college.

 

[Ranger REG]

Good analysis report, but it is not enough to want to change the penalty from -2 to -3.

If I do accept it though, do I have to increase the penalties for two-weapon fighting [i.e., TWF+Ambi with light weapon in off hand: -3 (primary)/-3 (off hand attack)] and monk's Flurry of Blows?

With the exception of magic item's enhancement bonus, it is rare to see odd-numbered values?

 

[hong]

Good analysis report, but it is not enough to want to change the penalty from -2 to -3.

If I do accept it though, do I have to increase the penalties for two-weapon fighting [i.e., TWF+Ambi with light weapon in off hand: -3 (primary)/-3 (off hand attack)] and monk's Flurry of Blows?

Alternatively, you could just remove the +1 attack bonus from Point Blank Shot. It comes to the same thing, since you can't have RS without PBS; and the +1 bonus applies even when you don't use RS.

 

[Black Omega]

For that matter...Rapid fire is restricted to 30 feet? Where is that at?

 

[Bagpuss]

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/rapidshot.html

Hmm.. so a -3 for Rapid Shot? What about for other ACs? Is 11 the kinda 'default'?

Can't we test this out on college students?

What you can't tell from Sean K Reynolds data is that as AC increases the benifit of Rapid Shot drops off. Although Rapid shot works out better in most situations if you need to roll a 17, 18, or 19 to hit with a normal attack, then you will actually be worse off if you use it and you need a 15 or 16 then it isn't much better than Weapon Focus. If you needed a to roll a 20 with your normal attack then two chances of 20 with rapid shot is obviously better.

If you made the modifier -3 instead of -2 then you would be worse off using rapid shot if you needed a normal attack roll of 15 to 19 to hit, and for a roll of 12 to 14 its not much better than Weapon Focus.

Thats a quarter of the time the feat would be a disadvantage, and if you don't actually know the opponents AC you are more likely to err on the side of caution and not use it. What's the point of having a feat that isn't used, or can penalise you when you do use it?

 

[mmu1]

Rapid Shot is too good, but I think it's for different reasons.

IMO, Archers have it a bit too good to begin with, mainly because of how harsh close combat is in 3E, and because of the stacking of bow and arrow bonuses. On top of that, with Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot they get a couple of the best combat-oriented feats in the core rules.

And Rapid Shot itself definitely has issues... Not because it's better than Weapon Focus - if we tried to nerf everything that's better then Weapon Focus we'd loose half of the combat feats. A feat with prerequisites should be better than a vanilla one like Weapon Focus.
The problem is how much better it is than Two Weapon Fighting: You don't have to worry about splitting your money to get a secondary weapon, you get to use the same damage die as with your primary weapon, you get the same damage bonus from strength, and all your feats increasing to hit probability, damage, and critical range will apply to your every attack. Unless the guy with TWF is happy using two shortswords, that's a huge advantage for the archer.

 

[Kugar]

Sean's analysis actually favors rapid shot because it does not factor in the probability of hitting with both shots. A better analysis for this type of problem would be an average damage calculation. For instances at high BAB, Sean shows a low advantage for Rapid shot, yet in terms of damage output it is more favorable. If I get a chance, I'll post this different way of looking at Rapid Shot.

Kugar

 

[Bagpuss]

The melee fighter can however only worry about one attribute Strength to improve both to hit and damage.

An archer however finds his Dexterity only adds to his chance to hit. If he does want to increase damage then he needs to have a high strength as well, plus needs to spend money on a new bow. so thats 'a huge disadvantage' to a archer.