Rat Bastards! Help with elemental swarm!

[d20Dwarf]

So, how the heck do you deal with this spell? I thought foresight was bad until a player unleashed this doozy in a recent playtest. 4-13 earth elementals that can "swim" through earth, making a mockery of your dungeon!

Me: *Excellent description of dungeon.*
Player: "I send my earth elementals through the walls and floor to see what's in every room. Then they attack them one by one."
Me: "Ok, that spell is banned, next!?!"



I mean, they took down some of the big monsters without the PCs having to really get involved, then they just kept scouting and tearing doors off their hinges, and it was really ridiculous.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

You just forgot to place Unhallow and Forbiddance on your dungeon. That's all. Problem solved.

Another option would be to use Magically Treated Walls DMG v3.5 p.59 which you could rule are not passable for elemental creatures.

~Marimmar

 

[Romnipotent]

read bonded summoner in the Miniatures Handbook, yep, a player becomes an eldar elemental and does the same thing as described... ban that too

 

[GreyShadow]

Tell him his earth elementals don't come back.

Edit: Then have a elemental swarm attack him.

 

[shilsen]

Your PCs are casting 9th level spells. If they can't make a mockery of your dungeon by this point, they should stop playing D&D. And if you're DMing for 17th+ level PCs, you seriously need to check out the possibilities of the spells in the PHB.

Seriously.

 

[diaglo]

i know you don't have to concentrate to maintain control.

but don't you still have to communicate/stay close with them to give them new commands?

and when they go into the wall, that doesn't mean you can see thru their eyes. nor does it prevent the structure collapsing behind them if they burrow/dig.

and if they have to come back to give you a report. ... have the monsters they encountered move/prepare for the worst/ no surprise/ etc...

 

[carpedavid]

What shilsen said...

Additionally, though - consider that part of the "challenge" of a mundane dungeon is navigation. At low levels, the limited choice of movement methods is part of what makes a dungeon hard. The PCs have a limited capacity for bypassing the mundane limitations of knowing what's around the next corner or being able to walk through walls. Therefore, they have to walk by that lovingly crafted trap, or that pool of green slime, or that group of kobolds.

At higher levels, magic allows the PCs to bypass much of those "challenges" - and for good reason. If the only difference between a low level dungeon and a high level dungeon was the hit dice of the monster around the next corner, the game would have the tendency to get monotonous (at least in my opinion). At 17th level, physical obstructions simply aren't, well, obstructive...

Therefore, you need to create different challenges for the PCs. Perhaps a dungeon that's designed by a high level elementalist who has the ability to walk through earth. There might be no tunnels or passages at all - just pockets of air separated by great distances. Perhaps he's assembled a bunch of geodes that he uses as chambers. Elemental swarm might actually be neccessary to figure out how to navigate the dungeon!

Just remember that the whole point of magic is to be able to overcome challenges. High level magic requires high level challenges, and not just high HD monsters. I wouldn't recommend banning high level spells that seem to "break" your dungeon. Rather, I'd consider them a challenge. Use them to make yourself a more creative DM.

You may want to read my judgment of a semifinal match in the Fall 2004 Iron DM contest that adresses this very issue: http://www.aquerra.com/rbdmc/viewtopic.php?p=1526#1526

 

[diaglo]

Just remember that the whole point of magic is to be able to overcome challenges. High level magic requires high level challenges, and not just high HD monsters. I wouldn't recommend banning high level spells that seem to "break" your dungeon. Rather, I'd consider them a challenge. Use them to make yourself a more creative DM.

w3rd. what carpedavid said.

 

[Piratecat]

At the risk of joining the "what they said" gang, you shouldn't be surprised that a 9th lvl spell foils a dungeon. Of course it does! I found this out back in 2e, the first time my PCs scouted a dungeon ethereally and sent in an aerial stalker to kidnap the person that they came for. It happens, and it's good smart play. Those bastards.

It's possible to create a non-PC-nerfing dungeon that doesn't roll over and show its belly to high lvl PCs, but it isn't easy.

 

[hong]

It's possible to create a non-PC-nerfing dungeon that doesn't roll over and show its belly to high lvl PCs, but it isn't easy.

That's why I banned 9th level spells. 8th level provides quite enough cinematics for me....

Re the OP: greater dispel magic.