Rate 4e Dragon Magazine

[ProfessorCirno]

In terms of a page comparission, it should be pointed out. If there are no letters and cartoons in one, is it "fair" to compare it to the pages consumed on the print side? I'd say no. Now if we do see letters pages and toons latter on and they do take up space at the expense of other articles and the overall page count stays the same, I'll concede the point.

By your own logic, the print Dragon was a thousand times better, because it had 3.5 content, while the current one doesn't. If there is no 4e content in one, is it "fair" to compare it to the pages consumed on the pdf side? I'd say no. Now, if we did see 4e content later on and they did take up space at the expense of other articles and the overall page count stayed the same, I'd concede the point.

Do you see how silly that sounds?

 

[JoeGKushner]

By your own logic, the print Dragon was a thousand times better, because it had 3.5 content, while the current one doesn't. If there is no 4e content in one, is it "fair" to compare it to the pages consumed on the pdf side? I'd say no. Now, if we did see 4e content later on and they did take up space at the expense of other articles and the overall page count stayed the same, I'd concede the point.

Do you see how silly that sounds?

Not at all. If all you're looking for is 3.5 content then yeah, DDI is a complete failure for you after it went 4.

 

[justanobody]

Its a 70+ page pdf with no advertising, I would hardly call it thin.

Dragon Magazine issue #250 - 124 pages PDF

Since I don't have a stored one and cannot get one currently from the DDI site for some odd reason I think it likewise includes the cover as a page.

so each lose a page of content to even each other out.

Lose another page for #250 because the cover is again in the magazine without the text so you can see the full artwork, and there is a 2 page ad in most issues prior to that cover reprint.

Then I guess each to have a single page TOC..

119 vs 68 pages

I really doubt 50 pages of ads, but Am counting them. Also previous had actual comics that added value to reading. Finish one article and check out Nodwick before getting head deep into the next.

DUH!

The Advertiser Index on page 103 of issue 250 lists 25 ads. We will say each are a full page....

94 vs 68 pages

5 of those pages of ads are D&D product ads. Considering the hubbub about playtest material in he new incarnation of Dragon we can guess similar "ads" within the new format as playtest articles.

94 vs 63 pages.

4 fulls pages of comics for #250

90 vs 63 pages

6 pages of previews.

84 vs 63 pages

There is no way to include some new content into a PDF like Podcasts, flash animations, etc. So those really cannot adjust the page counts, but do show negatively for not being able to print anything out as the podcasts don't even have a transcript in the final PDF of Dragon. That would add some more content to the magazine and offer people unable to fully utilize a podcast.

For October there are two such podcasts.

20 pages and a print copy may not sound like much to most people but when you figure the lower resolution and amount of imagery in the former Dragon and that text went to all edges of the pages instead of having wasted real estate in the form of white space.

Then figure you got the former magazine printed for you and todays printing costs with higher priced color ink cartridges for most people with less ink in them, you are paying more for a print copy of the Dragon now than before.

You could say this is about inflation, but $30 for a single color ink to print only half an issue means you are paying $60 on top of the subscription fee for each issue if you like hard copies.

$5 per month for a year for 12 issues of both we will give $2.50 per issue.

$2.50 for 63 pages

$5.00 for issue 250 with 84 pages

Let us just say the issue is important for a moment, and not the page count for the next math so we don't have to try to break down per page cost yet.

To have those new pages printed costs $62.50

$62.50 for 63 pages vs $5 for 84 pages.



Now if you were to try to get the same page count worth of content to print the new Dragon as issue 250 for the cost we need to break down page price of the print vesrions of both.

$1.00 per page for the new Dragon
$0.06 per page for issue #250

So price wise I would say the new Dragon is 1/16th of the old one in size...

You would need 16 pages per current page in digital format for digital to be the same value of the former print product to overcome the cost of printing the issue to get the same value in my mind. Because to have a print copy you are paying 16 times as much as issue #250 which was already printed for you, and even included those advertisement and the extra number of pages.....

Seems thin to me.

That is just one way to value the new Dragon compared to one old Dragon. But the crux of the matter it that for the reduction of cost to the publisher I would expect a larger reduction of cost to myself, or an increase in content/page count. The current reduction of cost is not enough, or the page count is very much too small for it without the added costs of printing. Something you would need the PDF copy for anyways these days. You just wouldn't crop all the pages to remove those printing marks across the top/sides.

Not to mention overhead for storage of the phyisical product that is now not incurred byt he publisher.

So short stroy long as it were...the new Dragon is pretty thin, to me.

 

[Shroomy]

There's a couple of things to remember. First, the modern print version of Dragon was only 90-100 pages long. Second, the electronic version doesn't include letters (replaced by the WoTC forums), Sage Advice (its now a separate part of the WoTC website), or WoTC product previews (again, a separate part of the website, along with RPGA information). Third, are you counting full pages, because most ads only take up a portion of the page, not the full thing.

Personally, the two modern versions of the products are probably comparable in terms of length (content is a matter of personal preference). As for printing costs, I avoid those by not printing them out...My laptop with a wide screen comes in quite handy.

 

[justanobody]

I counted any page with an ad as a full page ad to give the new version the benefit of the doubt.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I guess the problem is that we're now on a print vs PDF arguement which is really another arguement entirely.

 

[justanobody]

I guess the problem is that we're now on a print vs PDF arguement which is really another arguement entirely.

In a way so, but in a way not. It is all based on what people expect out of the different forms of medium for the cost. Print you might be willing to take less because some pages require advertisements to keep the costs down, and those ads also help gamers.

Also having a publications revolving around only a single product limits its audience.

A good question would be how much of the old Dragons was D&D content I guess.

For myself, if given a choice of one or the other, I would prefer print over PDF because I can use it in more places. PDF has many advantages, but are the disadvantages it brings enough to counter the advantages of the print version and the quality/quantity as well enough for the cost.

I think basing the price off a print product means people will relate them more closely because of the price relation. What are the prices of the PDF vs print MM, PHB, and DMG right now?

The electronic media costs are just too much for what you are getting IMHO.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I think basing the price off a print product means people will relate them more closely because of the price relation. What are the prices of the PDF vs print MM, PHB, and DMG right now?

Depends on where you buy them. Amazon currently has the print for less than DriveThrus has the PDF's I believe. Damn shame that capitalism can't work here to provide some competition. (Isn't that a monopoly?)

The electronic media costs are just too much for what you are getting IMHO.

Fair enough. I too think that for the books, WoTC is charging too much but either WoTC isn't concerned with how they sell or they are getting enough sales that they're not going to change.

 

[justanobody]

Well, I will admit I think both are overpriced physical and electronic. It will be interesting to see what a compilation of Dragon costs for individual buying at the end of the month when that becomes and option. Will it be more than the subscription or less because it does not include the bonus tools? That will be something that changes how people may rate the new Dragon.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well, I will admit I think both are overpriced physical and electronic. It will be interesting to see what a compilation of Dragon costs for individual buying at the end of the month when that becomes and option. Will it be more than the subscription or less because it does not include the bonus tools? That will be something that changes how people may rate the new Dragon.

Haven't they already said month to month is going to be more or are we talking going in and buying one back issue? I thought the whole DDI thing was pretty much like Steve Jackson Games pyramid where you got access to the 'vault' so to speak.