D&D 5E Ravenloft and the Shadowfell

[avin]

By now I'm comfortable mixing Shadow (Shadowfell) and Faerie (Feywild) into Planescape.

Ravenloft wouldn't be a part of Shadowfell that reflects the Prime Material Plane, but a demiplane inside Shadow accesible only by some kind of portal...

Even things like "Ravenloft is a demiplane where Deep Ethereal and Shadow overlap" would work.

(Never DMed or played in Ravenloft, so things I know about it are minimal).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I'm not sure I understand the problem with Ravenloft being in the Shadowfell any more than anywhere else. I mean, it's never really been located anywhere super-malicious by nature. It could easily be a particularly warped or bizarre part of the Shadowfell, cursed, and all that.

It seems like some of the "Well the way I use Plane X is..." (like Li's cool but super-not-canon deal with beings mapping to Shadowfell beings - let's not think about the implications if one of you dies but not the other!) are so far from canon that one would have to already be comfortable with modifying things so would be comfortable moving Ravenloft to wherever suited them best.

At least we got away from the bizarre idea, expressed in early 5E discussions, that the Shadowfell should be part of Ravenloft, not vice-versa!

 

[Jester David]

It's a flavour thing - the Shadow Plane (now the Shadowfell) is a washed out mirror of the Prime, where everything is muted and which sucks the life out of people - but does so in an entirely impersonal manner. It's a dangerous environment, but no more malicious than, say, a volcano.

By contrast, the Domain of Dread is actively hostile to those involved, and in particular to the lords of the various domains. Plus, of course, it doesn't want you to leave.

Kinda. Life in the Demiplane of Dread isn't that much worse than any other world.
There are all manner of horrible predatory creatures lurking in the shadows and trying to kill you, but most look human until they strike, and aren't giant dragons or an orc horde. You don't have to worry about rogue wizards in flying castles or the gods walking among mortals and the like.

 

[delericho]

Kinda. Life in the Demiplane of Dread isn't that much worse than any other world.
There are all manner of horrible predatory creatures lurking in the shadows and trying to kill you, but most look human until they strike, and aren't giant dragons or an orc horde. You don't have to worry about rogue wizards in flying castles or the gods walking among mortals and the like.

Those are all things living in the world. I was talking about the realm itself (or, rather, the Dark Powers, but those are all bound up in the nature of the demiplane).

Consider Dark Sun: the desert is harsh and unforgiving. It absolutely will kill a character who ventures out without preparation, who doesn't make provision for water and shelter. But the desert isn't trying to kill that character - it just doesn't care.

Even Cthulhu isn't actively trying to drive Investigators mad. That's just a byproduct of them meddling with things that man is not meant to know.

But Ravenloft (and/or the Dark Powers) are actively hostile.

 

[Jester David]

I'm not sure I understand the problem with Ravenloft being in the Shadowfell any more than anywhere else.

I know. This confuses me as well.

In 2e it was explicitly in the ethereal plane, albeit the "deep ethereal" wherever or whatever that was. So there was this weird pocket of solid space in the ghost realm for no good reason. The two didn't really mesh beyond the loose idea that the ethereal was kinda sorta the spirit world, which never saw much play.
Moving it to the Shadowfell but keeping it a demiplane or pocket dimension is largely a narrative change with no effect. And it makes slightly more sense as the Shadowfell is dark and explicitly the underworld and realm of undead.

That said, there was a big problem with the 4e Shadowfell Ravenloft, in that each world had its own Shadowfell and each world had its own domains of dread, which were reflections of places in the world. Which removed the Core and patchwork quilt world from Ravenloft. But that's easy enough to justify or explain as a quirk of the demiplane, or have the "deep Shadowfell" overlap between worlds.

 

[ZzarkLinux]

Hi everyone. This looks like a great thread, wish I had noticed it sooner !

I bought the Manual of the Planes 4e, and it was a good read. I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned Shadar-Kai, The Raven Queen, or Fell Taint yet, as those were key parts to the presentation of the Shadowfell. I'd like to share my worldview of the plane, and I am unsure if Ravenloft could fit.

Shadar-Kai were a race of humanoid PC characters who lived in the Shadowfell. They were kinda like humans who lived in the plane for so long that they gained resistance to the necrotic forces, and they also gained a shadowstep ability. They wore gothic attire, and wielded spiked chains, daggers, and other such metallic weaponry. They are commonly understood to hunt undead, either because of the undeath threat on the plane, or because they would be conscripted by followers of The Raven Queen. They have adapted pretty well to preserving their souls as well as laying to rest other haunted souls.

The Raven Queen was the mysterious god meant to watch over the Shadowfell and all the souls that passed through the plane. Whenever a person dies, their soul passes briefly through the Shadowfell before going on to their final destination. Kinda like a limbo or sorting area. Though it worked well, things could go wrong during your journey to the heavens ! The Raven Queen made it her duty to preserve this natural order, and sent her followers to hunt all sorts of ghouls, witches, and demons that would seek to harvest those souls for foul acts. There was even an adventure path where Orcus sought the true name of The Raven Queen as a weapon to use against her.

Fell Taint was a general environmental hazard throughout the Shadowfell. All the death, departed spirits, and necrotic energy could do nasty things to you. If you stand in the wrong area, you could suffer necrotic damage, receive extra damage from skeletons, or even spontaneously turn into a wraith ! Of course, the Shadar-Kai and other live residents would avoid these environments, but one must always be wary of the threat it imposes. With all the Black Taint, stray souls, and the demons who are hunting them, well some places in the Shadowfell are just plain off-limits!

I suppose that the easiest way to reach Ravenloft would be through the Shadowfell, but I'm not sure if Ravenloft exists on the plane, or is somehow separate but connected to the Shadowfell.