Remathilis
Legend
So a couple friends of mine are discussing running a Ravenloft game in 2nd edition (while fans of 3e/PF, we don't feel Ravenloft was done justice in the d20 era. But that is another topic). So I dusted off my old copy of Domains of Dread and re-read some of the Player Stuff in the back of the book.
For those who don't know or remember, DoD introduced four new "Ravenloft" classes: the Avenger, Arcanist, Anchorite, and Gypsy. Three of these "replace" the Paladin, Bard, and Druid's roles while having very flavorful connections to the world.
However, they are weak as all heck compared to their cour-four "general" classes!
We'll take them in Order:
Avengers are very similar to fighters. Extemely similar in fact. They use any weapon/armor, they can specialize in a melee weapon, gain bonus hp when fighting things similar to/are his nemesis (which is vaguely defined, more on that). and can intuitly track them with a wisdom check. All this for the Paladin's XP track.
What?
The problem is they're moderately better than a fighter, but at the cost of a paladin or ranger's XP (and no where near as good as the latter two, lacking powerful abilities from the others). Additionally, its two class powers are dependent on its nemesis, which is not well defined. For example, they gain +10 hp if facing their nemesis: does that kick in when fighting, say, a vampire, or only Count Batty Von Fangsalot? If its the latter, I don't see that +10 hp being overly used. At the end, you're a fighter with a worse XP track.
Arcanists are wizards who study occult lore. Cool! What do they get? Well, they're a bit like necromancer specialists except they don't gain a bonus spell/day or automatic learned spells. Instead, they get turn undead like a cleric (cool!) and "forgotten lore" like a bard. (cool!) Ok, what's the drawbacks. Well; you can't cast spells from Invocation, Illusion, Alteration, or Enchantment to start...
That's FOUR schools! Out of EIGHT! No Fireball, Fly, Teleport, Invisibility, Most of the common "wizard" spells are out of your reach. Additionally, spells that aren't divination or necromancy (so Abjuration and Conjuration) are at a -25% to learn. YIKES! Oh, and did I mention that since this is Ravenloft, your two best schools are nerfed (necromancy often requires powers checks, divination is unreliable).
Oh, and did I mention you make a MANDATORY 5%/level Power Check just for LEVELING!? So even if you are an angel who feeds the sick and clothes the poor, you will end up bumfudged just for leveling. Mind you, you can't multi-class out of this class either, since this ain't 3e. You're stuck with him. And for all this hidden knowledge, you get the EXACT SAME SPELLS your buddy mage gets. But hey, turn undead, right?
I GET its supposed to be a downwards spiral, but Shouldn't you GET something for this?
Anchorite: The only class they almost get right. Clerics of a single faith (Ezra) and really flavorful how they made a pseudo-Christian church which Gothic horror really needs. Its DoDs only Specialty Priest. However, it suffers from the same problem as the others: weak compared to the Cleric.
Granted, they're not nearly as weak as the others: They can weild blunt weapons and wear metal armor (TN ones can use blades as well). They turn undead just like a cleric. Additionally, they get two special abilities (Shield of Ezra and Mistwalking) which are both really cool. The former grants you immunities based on your alignment, the latter lets you teleport via the mists (though you need to be high level to take your party with you...). Their downside is compared to core clerics, they have weak sphere selection. They get 9 spheres, 3 of them minor. No combat, no necromancy (ergo, no Raise Dead). Considering the page before it gives the cleric nearly EVERY domain in the Tome of Magic, you have to decide if shield and mistwalking is worth it...
Gypsy: I... I'm not sure what this class is supposed to BE! It appears to be a bard replacement and its in the rogue group, but its design is very schizophrenic.
In 2e, all classes in a group have similar traits (warriors get extra attacks, wizards use the same spell chart, etc). Additionally, they should have the same base requirements and primes (9 dex, Dex is prime) but Gypsy doesn't. In fact, it doesn't share anything in common with rogues but Thac0 and HD. It doesn't require a dexterity score (but dex is still prime).
More importantly, it doesn't have any thief skills! Not one! Thieves get all 8 (PP, OL, F/RT, etc) bards get four, and gypsies get none. So despite references to being stealthy/tricky, they have no skills to do that. Likewise, they have no abilities related to influencing people like a bard can. (Actually, the opposite, more on that later).
So what DO they get? Well, they can specialize in a weapon like a fighter, as long at its a knife or dagger and doesn't get extra attack. They get some spellcasting abilities (up to 4th level, and only from divination, 30 minute casting time, but hey, they don't need to memorize!) and they get forbidden lore like the arcanist. Additionally, non-gypsies and Vistani both give them penalties to reaction rolls. Thats all.
So, anyone got any ideas on how to FIX these classes to make them playable? I love the idea of Ravenloft-themed classes, but right now your still better off being a fighter, cleric, mage, or thief over an avenger, anchorite, arcanist, and gypsy...
For those who don't know or remember, DoD introduced four new "Ravenloft" classes: the Avenger, Arcanist, Anchorite, and Gypsy. Three of these "replace" the Paladin, Bard, and Druid's roles while having very flavorful connections to the world.
However, they are weak as all heck compared to their cour-four "general" classes!
We'll take them in Order:
Avengers are very similar to fighters. Extemely similar in fact. They use any weapon/armor, they can specialize in a melee weapon, gain bonus hp when fighting things similar to/are his nemesis (which is vaguely defined, more on that). and can intuitly track them with a wisdom check. All this for the Paladin's XP track.
What?
The problem is they're moderately better than a fighter, but at the cost of a paladin or ranger's XP (and no where near as good as the latter two, lacking powerful abilities from the others). Additionally, its two class powers are dependent on its nemesis, which is not well defined. For example, they gain +10 hp if facing their nemesis: does that kick in when fighting, say, a vampire, or only Count Batty Von Fangsalot? If its the latter, I don't see that +10 hp being overly used. At the end, you're a fighter with a worse XP track.
Arcanists are wizards who study occult lore. Cool! What do they get? Well, they're a bit like necromancer specialists except they don't gain a bonus spell/day or automatic learned spells. Instead, they get turn undead like a cleric (cool!) and "forgotten lore" like a bard. (cool!) Ok, what's the drawbacks. Well; you can't cast spells from Invocation, Illusion, Alteration, or Enchantment to start...
That's FOUR schools! Out of EIGHT! No Fireball, Fly, Teleport, Invisibility, Most of the common "wizard" spells are out of your reach. Additionally, spells that aren't divination or necromancy (so Abjuration and Conjuration) are at a -25% to learn. YIKES! Oh, and did I mention that since this is Ravenloft, your two best schools are nerfed (necromancy often requires powers checks, divination is unreliable).
Oh, and did I mention you make a MANDATORY 5%/level Power Check just for LEVELING!? So even if you are an angel who feeds the sick and clothes the poor, you will end up bumfudged just for leveling. Mind you, you can't multi-class out of this class either, since this ain't 3e. You're stuck with him. And for all this hidden knowledge, you get the EXACT SAME SPELLS your buddy mage gets. But hey, turn undead, right?
I GET its supposed to be a downwards spiral, but Shouldn't you GET something for this?
Anchorite: The only class they almost get right. Clerics of a single faith (Ezra) and really flavorful how they made a pseudo-Christian church which Gothic horror really needs. Its DoDs only Specialty Priest. However, it suffers from the same problem as the others: weak compared to the Cleric.
Granted, they're not nearly as weak as the others: They can weild blunt weapons and wear metal armor (TN ones can use blades as well). They turn undead just like a cleric. Additionally, they get two special abilities (Shield of Ezra and Mistwalking) which are both really cool. The former grants you immunities based on your alignment, the latter lets you teleport via the mists (though you need to be high level to take your party with you...). Their downside is compared to core clerics, they have weak sphere selection. They get 9 spheres, 3 of them minor. No combat, no necromancy (ergo, no Raise Dead). Considering the page before it gives the cleric nearly EVERY domain in the Tome of Magic, you have to decide if shield and mistwalking is worth it...
Gypsy: I... I'm not sure what this class is supposed to BE! It appears to be a bard replacement and its in the rogue group, but its design is very schizophrenic.
In 2e, all classes in a group have similar traits (warriors get extra attacks, wizards use the same spell chart, etc). Additionally, they should have the same base requirements and primes (9 dex, Dex is prime) but Gypsy doesn't. In fact, it doesn't share anything in common with rogues but Thac0 and HD. It doesn't require a dexterity score (but dex is still prime).
More importantly, it doesn't have any thief skills! Not one! Thieves get all 8 (PP, OL, F/RT, etc) bards get four, and gypsies get none. So despite references to being stealthy/tricky, they have no skills to do that. Likewise, they have no abilities related to influencing people like a bard can. (Actually, the opposite, more on that later).
So what DO they get? Well, they can specialize in a weapon like a fighter, as long at its a knife or dagger and doesn't get extra attack. They get some spellcasting abilities (up to 4th level, and only from divination, 30 minute casting time, but hey, they don't need to memorize!) and they get forbidden lore like the arcanist. Additionally, non-gypsies and Vistani both give them penalties to reaction rolls. Thats all.
So, anyone got any ideas on how to FIX these classes to make them playable? I love the idea of Ravenloft-themed classes, but right now your still better off being a fighter, cleric, mage, or thief over an avenger, anchorite, arcanist, and gypsy...
