Ravenloft is being folded into the core setting for 4E (Domains of Dread)

[Daniel D. Fox]

Not so sure how they intend to shoehorn the Dragonborn into the setting, since it's clearly always been about man vs. monster. Hmm...

 

[Green Knight]

I suspect, and hope, that WotC is going to dump that element of the setting, and turn Ravenloft into a bunch of sub-planes in the Shadowfell, much like astral dominions in the Astral Sea, or the Abyss in the Elemental Tempest. Grim, brooding, a place where dark powers rule, but not totally cut off from the rest of the multiverse.

Not I. I want to see it as is, a demiplane floating in the Astral Sea dominated by the Dark Powers. We already know demiplanes still exist in 4E, so no reason Ravenloft can't remain a demiplane. And dividing it up loses a lot of what makes it great. Better to be one whole setting then chunks scattered all over here and there. Besides, placing it in the Shadowfell loses an opportunity to give Ravenloft its own Shadowfell and Feywild reflections.

Also, who else thinks they're going to be tied to the Raven Queen in some way?

I hope not, as that'd be a forced pairing. What does the Raven Queen have to do with Ravenloft, aside from similar names?

 

[Dausuul]

Not I. I want to see it as is, a demiplane floating in the Astral Sea dominated by the Dark Powers. We already know demiplanes still exist in 4E, so no reason Ravenloft can't remain a demiplane.

As far as I know, demiplanes don't exist any more. The Ravenloft demiplane was a sub-plane of the Ethereal Plane, and there no longer is an Ethereal Plane - the Astral Sea, the Feywild, and the Shadowfell got together to kill it and take its stuff. Astral dominions do exist, but they have much more in common with the 3.X Outer Planes than they do with Ravenloft.

Ravenloft doesn't make a lot of sense as part of the Astral Sea. It's not a celestial or infernal realm inhabited by divine beings; it's essentially similar to the material plane, which means it ought to fit somewhere in the Feywild/Shadowfell/material plane triad. Out of those three, the Shadowfell is the obvious place to put it.

And dividing it up loses a lot of what makes it great. Better to be one whole setting then chunks scattered all over here and there.

But it originally was broken up into chunks, with the mists tying them together. I'd go with something like the original layout; a "continent" of domains that are separate but closely linked, with easy travel from one to another, and then "islands" floating out in the Shadowfell.

Besides, placing it in the Shadowfell loses an opportunity to give Ravenloft its own Shadowfell and Feywild reflections.

I don't think it needs them. What would a Shadowfell reflection of Ravenloft look like that's darker and grimmer than Ravenloft itself? For that matter, I'm not sure what a Feywild reflection would be like, either - Ravenloft is already a place of intense natural beauty.

(Also note that the Astral Sea doesn't get Shadowfell or Feywild reflections either. The only plane that has such reflections is the material plane.)

 

[Wolfwood2]

Can't wait to see Strahd as a solo encounter.

A solo? Nah, Strahd should be backed up by a bunch of vampire spawn, some wolves he's called, and a horde of mindless undead. He's a former general; he ought to come to battle at the head of an army.

 

[TerraDave]

I am hedging my bets on Ravenloft as a part of the Shadowfell.

The original could easily be described as a village, and castle, that fell into the, er, shadowfell.

 

[Cadfan]

It all depends on how you use him.

For example, you could do a battlefield scene where your peasant levies face off against his hordes of undead allies, while the PCs cut through his lieutenants one by one until they finally face off with Strahd in the clearing in the center of the battlefield, while both armies desperately try to stay back from the devastation the fight unleashes.

 

[Green Knight]

As far as I know, demiplanes don't exist any more.

According to Rich Baker, demiplanes do still exist. It'd be pretty strange to say that demiplanes still exist... but not keep the most well-known demiplane as a demiplane.

The Ravenloft demiplane was a sub-plane of the Ethereal Plane, and there no longer is an Ethereal Plane - the Astral Sea, the Feywild, and the Shadowfell got together to kill it and take its stuff. Astral dominions do exist, but they have much more in common with the 3.X Outer Planes than they do with Ravenloft.

Like I mentioned above, demiplanes still exist. As for where they'd be located, the Astral Sea is the most likely place for them to be situated.

Ravenloft doesn't make a lot of sense as part of the Astral Sea. It's not a celestial or infernal realm inhabited by divine beings; it's essentially similar to the material plane, which means it ought to fit somewhere in the Feywild/Shadowfell/material plane triad. Out of those three, the Shadowfell is the obvious place to put it.

There's no indication that says that astral dominions are inhabited solely by divine beings. We probably won't know for sure until Auril's Hall in Dragon #367is out, as "The hall of the Frostmaiden is explored here, along with the rumors of its many dangerous denizens." So we'll see what the denizes are. Either way, it's a demiplane, not an astral dominion. So whatever rules may be true for astral dominions aren't necessarily true for demiplanes.

As for where to situate it, the Astral Sea is the best place as Ravenloft more closely resembles an Astral Dominion then a world. It doesn't fit in the Shadowfell because the Shadowfell isn't a single plane. Each world has its own Shadowfell reflection, separate from each other. It's not an expansive plane like the Astral Sea or the Elemental Chaos. So Ravenloft doesn't fit there. In addition, putting it in the Shadowfell means it can't have its own Shadowfell reflection, or a Feywild reflection. However, if it's a demiplane, then it can be made to mimic the properties of a real world. In which case it can have its own Shadowfell and Feywild reflections.

But it originally was broken up into chunks, with the mists tying them together.

Not entirely sure what you're referencing. Barring a darklord closing the borders, you can travel freely from one domain to another in the core. The mistways only came into play with certain domains. The vast majority weren't broken up as you described.

I'd go with something like the original layout; a "continent" of domains that are separate but closely linked, with easy travel from one to another, and then "islands" floating out in the Shadowfell.

How is it a continent if they're separate?

I don't think it needs them. What would a Shadowfell reflection of Ravenloft look like that's darker and grimmer than Ravenloft itself? For that matter, I'm not sure what a Feywild reflection would be like, either - Ravenloft is already a place of intense natural beauty.

Check out the Fraternity of Shadows website. The poster Jester has some great ideas in that regard. As for why it would need them, the main question is: Why wouldn't it have them? WotC created this new cosmology. They're not about to have the entire cosmology go unignored in a campaign setting. Ravenloft would have to have some of the cosmology available, and the Shadowfell and Feywild make sense. Nevermind that they would be interesting. Sithicus with it's own Feywild would definitely be interesting, as would Darkon's Shadowfell reflection. It'd also open the door to epic level play in Ravenloft without riddling the Ravenloft countryside with epic level threats.

(Also note that the Astral Sea doesn't get Shadowfell or Feywild reflections either. The only plane that has such reflections is the material plane.)

According to the rules for demiplanes as they stand, they can be created to have any properties the creator desires, including replicating elements of real worlds. Seeing as how demiplanes still exist, and assuming things stay the same, it isn't hard to imagine the Dark Powers creating their demiplane to mimic the world in a lot of ways, including a Shadowfell and Feywild reflection.

 

[Green Knight]

There's no indication that says that astral dominions are inhabited solely by divine beings.

That's actually incorrect. There is indication that astral dominions aren't solely inhabited by divine beings in the DMG. From the DMG chapter on the Astral Sea...

The Bright City of Hestavar, as its title suggests, is a vast metropolis where Erathis, Ioun, and Pelor make their homes. Powerful residents of all the planes make their way to the Bright City to buy and sell exotic goods.

Tytherion, called the Endless Night, is the dark domain that Tiamat and Zehir share. No light can pierce its darkest depths, and both serpents and dragons haunt its otherworldly wilderness.

Not to mention that we've seen evidence of travellers in the astral sea (possibly Astraljamming).

Astral vessels approaching too closely find themselves plummeting through the skies of Avernus rather than sailing in the Astral Sea, landing in the Nine Hells with a great fiery impact.

Whatever the case, there's nothing to say that beings powerful enough to construct a dominion within the Astral Sea can't populate it with mortal beings if they so choose.

 

[The Little Raven]

A solo? Nah, Strahd should be backed up by a bunch of vampire spawn, some wolves he's called, and a horde of mindless undead. He's a former general; he ought to come to battle at the head of an army.

Solos don't have to come alone. Orcus' encounter group includes a total of 10 other monsters (2 elites, 8 minions).

The original could easily be described as a village, and castle, that fell into the, er, shadowfell.

Indeed. Strahd made a pact with Death, after all.