Pathfinder 1E Re: Unpleasant experience on local regional Pathfinder Society site (no complaining, tho'- see body!)

[Boethermsbrukan]

Re: Unpleasant experience on local regional Pathfinder Society site (no complaining, tho'- see body!)

Afternoon, folks! First off, Boethermsbrukan isn't native to Pathfinder (I toyed with the idea of making her a Flind Gnoll in D&D 3.5, but I don't know if Gnolls are in Pathfinder or if they are, whether or not they're an optional PC race under more-or-less normal conditions); she's a Wolfen from Palladium Fantasy, so we're clear on that. Second, I've been thinking about getting into Pathfinder recently; I found out about a new LGS not far from home (think 20 or 25 minutes away, less if there's a shorter subway wait than usual) that carries the full line of products, and I've really been itching to play a solid few hours of gaming. The nice thing about this place is that each Sunday they have an open play session, alternating between Pathfinder and another RPG I'm not familiar with every week (so every two weeks) right there in-store. Even if the gameplay runs late there would be little trouble getting home into the wee hours. Thirdly, I had a rather unpleasant experience on the Ontario Pathfinder Society forums (I'm in Toronto) and ended up with most of my posts later on being ignored or unreplied to. I don't know if in-character posts are frowned upon there, or if I'd made some idiotic faux-pas that I hadn't realized wasn't appreciated. As such, it did kind of suck that my home-base Pathfinder Society experience wasn't very pleasant from the beginning. That said, I'm hoping someone here can give me a better idea as to how to express myself on a Society forum, assuming there's a standard conceptual for doing so. I enjoy being IC in my posts, and I suspect that's what did the deed on the Ontario Society forums. Is that amongst the things that aren't really appropriate for any of the Pathfinder Society forums? I'd very much appreciate it, if there's one available, if someone might point me towards a list online of behaviour and expectations, both do's and don'ts, on one of the official forums. I still would very much enjoy getting into Pathfinder, certainly judging by the resources I've found online. Thanks for (hopefully! ^_^) putting up with my extended-length message. Cheers! -Boe.

 

[GameOgre]

Sorry I really can't help you with any information but I wanted to post anyway to say "Hang in there and keep trying". Sometimes gamers can be like everyone else and look down their noses at behavior or game style that is different.

When that happens on forums or heck any time it's easy to get discouraged but just keep at it.

It is a sad fact that most rpgers really do not role play all that much and certainly talking or posting outside the game would, at best, be ignored.

I salute you for not giving up and encourage you to keep trying.

On the other hand................

I found both D&D and Pathfinder official play to be very lacking in any form of role playing. While the experience was still very fun for me it was a more tactical and even meta-game experience.

That doesn't mean they all are, just the ones I played at.

Sounds what you need is a play group. Those can be hard to find but as long as you keep yourself open to playing in person with a drive or even playing online over a voice chat or another program you should be able to find one that fits your play style.

Good Luck!

 

[billd91]

Site etiquette is going to vary heavily from site to site and what purposes each site serves. If your local area site is focused mostly on helping people find games, understand rules, and hash out builds, role playing a non-PFS-legal character may not generate a lot of response.

On a lot of discussion sites, people are going to expect to interact with you, the player, rather than a persona. I generally prefer it, in part, because most people I've encountered online who have adopted a persona for routine posting usually seem to do it to be a dick or at least to be way more abrasive and confrontational than they would be face to face. Situations where I've seen people role play via posts in a positive way usually occur in designated parts of the site - like a persona forum.

 

[Boethermsbrukan]

Sorry I really can't help you with any information but I wanted to post anyway to say "Hang in there and keep trying". Sometimes gamers can be like everyone else and look down their noses at behavior or game style that is different.

GameOgre, good evening to you!

Thanks for the shoulderbump and the thumbs-up; I've been gaming longer than I've been full-steam-ahead in science-fiction fandom in general and I know that there are always going to be folks who don't think the same way you do or, in terms of gaming, don't game the same way you do. But isn't that the wonderful thing about creative roleplay! That basic fact is what keeps gaming going, I think, mainly because it kept it interesting and captured, focussed and inspired the imagination of players who were involved all the way back to Chainmail-with-fireballs and Avalon Hill, up to folks like me who started their journey with AD&D 2nd Ed. (and in my case as well, Palladium Fantasy and Rifts and Werewolf: the Apocalypse) in the late 1980s, and twenty years later the gaming community is still attracting and enthusing new blood.

When that happens on forums or heck any time it's easy to get discouraged but just keep at it.

I think I've managed to measure how much I love tabletop gaming in recent years by how I've kept it close to my heart without ever having a regular gaming group for most of those years. I love imagining and doing things with those imaginings. You feel like you're sharing in the creation the designers of the games you love put into print and fostering a bit of it yourself. You're totally right about keeping at it; like anything that means something to you it's important to stick by it.

It is a sad fact that most rpgers really do not role play all that much and certainly talking or posting outside the game would, at best, be ignored.

I would love to be part of a regular gaming group someday; I still find it odd that here in the largest city in Canada I've continued to find it difficult to find anybody at all I know or meet who games with any great interest or frequency. That's why I was excited about the gaming store I mentioned having opened up in the last couple of years (I've been looking into it from a couple of months ago when I found out about it 'til now) right on the main east-west subway line here, and having an open game night with organized Pathfinder play every second Sunday. I'd been looking at a fair bit of material available online for PF and the Society and while having no sit-down experience with Pathfinder, it seemed like as good a place as any to start.

I salute you for not giving up and encourage you to keep trying.

Thank you for saying that, GameOgre, and thank you for being a kind open ear. If gaming didn't mean anything to me it would mean nothing to say it, but I know how much I love gaming and I doubt I'll ever give roleplaying up where and as what I am.

On the other hand................

I found both D&D and Pathfinder official play to be very lacking in any form of role playing. While the experience was still very fun for me it was a more tactical and even meta-game experience.

I noticed that when I was learning my way through 3.5 (I initially bought the 3.5 Player's Handbook at one of my last conventions in 2004, and then the 3.5 Shelf Set (Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual in a bookend)) which I'd seen on sale at the local game shop across town from me that hosted the D&D 30th Anniversary game sessions. Hee, I still have my pro bono polyhedrals, miniatures and two branded mechanical pencils from that. That was a real blast, to be in a gaming group if only for that afternoon. I wish at the time I'd had the nerve to ask if anyone there had a group with a free seat.

Mind you, I've done most of my drawings in the last several years with one of those pencils or the other. I can't complain! ^_^

Sounds what you need is a play group. Those can be hard to find but as long as you keep yourself open to playing in person with a drive or even playing online over a voice chat or another program you should be able to find one that fits your play style.

I agree completely. My imagination is ready and waiting for such an outlet; I'm hoping that attending a couple of months' worth of those Pathfinder sessions might lead to something along those lines, but at least I'll be actively playing a recurring session for the first time in a while! ^_^

Thank you for the wishing of good luck, too; I'll be hoping for the best, and thank you for hoping with me. It's a pleasure to make your acquaintance!

-Boe.

 

[Boethermsbrukan]

Site etiquette is going to vary heavily from site to site and what purposes each site serves. If your local area site is focused mostly on helping people find games, understand rules, and hash out builds, role playing a non-PFS-legal character may not generate a lot of response.

BillD, good evening!

Aye, that occurred to me after the fact. The Society Ontario forums weren't meant (at least I don't think they were) as an IC gaming tavern for the most part. The problem for me lay, I think, in that it was a forum or thread where a body would introduce themselves (and their character) and I suspect I misinterpreted the demarcation of Boethermsbrukan and myself, however subtle I made it. That subtlety might've messed things up in and of itself. ("It's one of those 'funny animal people'".... they didn't say that, of course, but Boethermsbrukan is a Flind Gnoll and I don't even know if Gnolls are a part of Pathfinder (as opposed to D&D)).

On a lot of discussion sites, people are going to expect to interact with you, the player, rather than a persona. I generally prefer it, in part, because most people I've encountered online who have adopted a persona for routine posting usually seem to do it to be a dick or at least to be way more abrasive and confrontational than they would be face to face. Situations where I've seen people role play via posts in a positive way usually occur in designated parts of the site - like a persona forum.

Complete agreement with you there. I think I assumed that the 'Show us your character!' enthusement was more 'talking about your character and his/her background' and not 'roleplay/be your character IC'. It just hurt a bit to have it happen on the Forums for my local Society chapter, but then again, I was the one who chose to attempt to roleplay Boe, and over and above that, I chose to join and do it on those particular Forums. It's not like anybody was trying to be a huge jerk about it.

Thanks for posting me back, in any case; I really appreciate the sounding board and reasonable, constructive response you posted me back with.

-Boe.

 

[exile]

Boethermsbrukan,

Hey man, sorry to hear that you had a bad experience on your local PFS forum, and I hope you are able to find some good gaming in the near future. On the Paizo forums, there are some threads where people post in character, but mostly they post out of character.

As for your character concept, you need to keep in mind that PFS, the world of Golarion, and the Pathfinder rules are all different games. While your character might well fit into a home game using the Pathfinder rules, there is not strictly a place for her in the world of Golarion. You said yourself that she is a wolfed from the world of Palladium fantasy, right? That said, there are definitely gnolls in the world of Golarion; I prepped an adventure featuring one just this weekend.

PFS is a different beast entirely. It is Paizo's organized play campaign. People from across the world are able to travel from table to table and play with a common rules set and common assumptions. One of those assumptions is a restriction as to which races are legal.

So, I can see where members of a forum dedicated to PFS play might have been confused from in character posts from a wolfed from another world.

Heck, you guys probably didn't even speak the same language. ;-)

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Most discussion boards don't focus on IC posts, so those tend to get ignored. I don't respond to them, but I'm not hostile towards them - I just prefer to keep my roleplaying in-game. There are some boards where posting IC is the norm, but for the most part it isn't that common.

I love the roleplaying aspect of rpgs, but haven't found many opportunities for that in PFS games. There isn't a lot of room to develop your character, beyond gaining levels. They tend to be run more like wargames with more "flavor text" and a little roleplaying. That's common at a lot of D&D and Pathfinder home games, too, unfortunately.

PFS also limits the races you can play, cutting out some of the more interesting ones in Pathfinder, which (to me) is a huge drawback. That's one of the big reasons why I rarely play in them. Given the choice, I will always go with a regular game of Pathfinder outside of the PFS, to have more actual roleplaying/character development opportunities and to get to design the type of character I want to.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

I would love to be part of a regular gaming group someday; I still find it odd that here in the largest city in Canada I've continued to find it difficult to find anybody at all I know or meet who games with any great interest or frequency.

That's a big problem in a lot of areas, unfortunately, even big urban ones. It gets even tougher if you try to find people who can/will meet for regular games and are also into actual roleplaying. In my area, it's tough to find people who will play anything other than Pathfinder and (maybe) D&D, even. That's the only reason I GM and play Pathfinder, as opposed to something like Savage Worlds.

I finally found a good group to play with, but I'm still struggling to find players for games I GM. There are a lot of people looking for games, but most of the ones I encounter want to play the game as if it's an MMO or video game, and/or can't commit to playing with any sort of regularity, even if it's only once a month.

 

[Boethermsbrukan]

Re: New Year's Update (Thank you for waiting for me!)

Hey man, sorry to hear that you had a bad experience on your local PFS forum, and I hope you are able to find some good gaming in the near future. On the Paizo forums, there are some threads where people post in character, but mostly they post out of character.

Exile, good evening, and I apologize for taking all this time to get back to you!

I appreciate your saying so, chummer; I've had a good while to work my feelings on it through, and I think I can safely say there are no hard feelings now that I'm feeling towards the local chapter, if there were any beforehand. I think like most of the fandoms I've been a part of, I have to keep in mind that I really didn't 'train' under anyone, really; it was more learning by rote and personal experience. For a very long time I really envied the people posting in Dragon's (TSR era mag, although I believe Paizo kept the print edition going for a while after they took over) letters page who had been part of a longtime gaming group since junior high. I felt like I was reading about movie stars, if that makes any sense! ^_^

As for your character concept, you need to keep in mind that PFS, the world of Golarion, and the Pathfinder rules are all different games. While your character might well fit into a home game using the Pathfinder rules, there is not strictly a place for her in the world of Golarion. You said yourself that she is a wolfed from the world of Palladium fantasy, right? That said, there are definitely gnolls in the world of Golarion; I prepped an adventure featuring one just this weekend.

I designed her to be a Wolfen initially, but I toyed on more than one occasion making her the lead in a story I was writing as a Flind Gnoll blacksmith; it's great to hear that Golarion does in fact have gnolls!

PFS is a different beast entirely. It is Paizo's organized play campaign. People from across the world are able to travel from table to table and play with a common rules set and common assumptions. One of those assumptions is a restriction as to which races are legal.

That was the idea I got, at least what little I got, anyway. I've rarely had anyone mention to me their interest in playing a Gnoll PC (much less a Flind); usually it tended towards more 'exotic' versions of PC race variants (like Drow in 3.5, for example, and racial level/class restrictions going out the recycling bin door) and not races that would usually be found as small-time monster encounters.

Heck, you guys probably didn't even speak the same language. ;-)

<chuckles> Given what I remember set down as Wolfen spoken and written language in Palladium Fantasy, that would be entirely possible! ^_^

I think this is a good enough place to say this, seeing as how the posters in this thread have encouraged me to give it a go: I went to the website of a local gaming store (they're more CCG oriented, but they carry a lot of gaming supplies in general _and_ they have an occasional Open Gaming Night for book-and-paper) which is all of 15 minutes away along the tram quote I live near here at home, and checked the price tag on a copy of the Pathfinder Core Rules. Thus: when I have the money available, I intend to buy a copy of the Core Rules there and get into the Gaming Nights they have at that store.

Thank you for giving me the psychological boost to jump in the pool! ^_^

Most discussion boards don't focus on IC posts, so those tend to get ignored. I don't respond to them, but I'm not hostile towards them - I just prefer to keep my roleplaying in-game. There are some boards where posting IC is the norm, but for the most part it isn't that common.

Pickin_G; good evening, and thank you for your patience regarding my lengthy silence!

Oh, yeah. I found that out the hard way when I was getting into BBSing around 1993 or so (dial-up modems, and text rather than anything like what we have graphics-wise now) and assuming the new boards I joined were more often than not oriented towards role-playing IC interaction. Even after getting my first and current persistent ADSL connection in 2001, I took a bit more care in looking around a given online 'board before I jumped in thus.

I love the roleplaying aspect of rpgs, but haven't found many opportunities for that in PFS games. There isn't a lot of room to develop your character, beyond gaining levels. They tend to be run more like wargames with more "flavor text" and a little roleplaying. That's common at a lot of D&D and Pathfinder home games, too, unfortunately.

We're definitely on the same level on both those points: enjoying in-depth IC roleplaying and seeing many modern fantasy games tend to low-IC/semi-wargaming play. It surprised the heck out of me when I got my 3.5 shelf set and went over the game grid/attack setup...I admit I have never played a huge amount of D&D with a face-to-face game troupe, but it felt more like Warhammer 40,000 (no offense to 'Hammer; I love the feel of that wargame but it's not at all Palladium or D&D in style) than Dungeons & Dragons. I know playing pieces and game grids in some permutation were always an option, but now it seemed to be required use.

PFS also limits the races you can play, cutting out some of the more interesting ones in Pathfinder, which (to me) is a huge drawback. That's one of the big reasons why I rarely play in them. Given the choice, I will always go with a regular game of Pathfinder outside of the PFS, to have more actual roleplaying/character development opportunities and to get to design the type of character I want to.

I got that impression as well; I think that's what has had me stick with Palladium Fantasy and Rifts for so many years: that you end up being stuck on which PC race to play because you've so many choices and you're not sure which of two or three you want to use. That, and there's more than a continent of interrelations between the governmental bodies that form the bureaucratic and social core of many of the 'big' races (like Wolfen and Humans, who at this point are gearing up for The Big Fight', if you dig).

That's a big problem in a lot of areas, unfortunately, even big urban ones. It gets even tougher if you try to find people who can/will meet for regular games and are also into actual roleplaying. In my area, it's tough to find people who will play anything other than Pathfinder and (maybe) D&D, even. That's the only reason I GM and play Pathfinder, as opposed to something like Savage Worlds.

That's what I'm hoping may pan out with the store I mentioned to Exile earlier in this message; even if it's an occasional Pathfinder game at their Open Game Night, I'd be happy with that; it's on a subway line that runs into the wee hours and failing that I wouldn't feel unsafe walking home from where the store is. Should I find myself a regular group to play with, so much the better! ^_^ That's why I'm getting myself a copy of the Pathfinder Core Rules at that store when the dough is available; thanks to the encouragement you, Exile and the rest of the folks who've posted in this thread have sent my way. This is the kind of enthusiasm that keeps me loving gaming, even though I haven't been in a sit-down game session for quite some time.

I finally found a good group to play with, but I'm still struggling to find players for games I GM. There are a lot of people looking for games, but most of the ones I encounter want to play the game as if it's an MMO or video game, and/or can't commit to playing with any sort of regularity, even if it's only once a month.

Believe me, having grown up in the era prior to being able to play good MMOs on your cell-phone (or even having a cell phone, mind you) and pixel-animation on a computer screen if you had one, I know how you feel. I've been catching up a bit with the tech, I admit, but even so I get that feeling from a lot of the 20-ish crowd; I don't fault them for it, it's what they grew up with. 37-year-old feeling nostalgia...sigh. BTW, my birthday was on the 27th of December. Old pup!

Still, it's great to have a rig that can run Skyrim and Oblivion and Neverwinter Nights well! As for regular play, I guess I've been rusty at it for as long as I have that I would be much more receptive to having an offered seat, if I found one, than another younger chummer might be, but it's great to know that the next wave of squirts are keeping the flag high, even if they don't all wave it the same way I did. Or tried to, anyway.

I'll let you know how the Open Gaming Night at the store I mentioned goes the next time one crops up; they keep an updated calendar of events going regularly, so I can at least plan out heading to the next one.

Thanks again for posting me here, mes amis; it means a lot to me to be able to rap with like-minded folks on gaming.

-Boe.