Re-using Powers

[Rykaar]

The books aren't even out yet and I'm toying with house rules.

This has probably been suggested before, but I wonder how broken or imbalanced it would be to allow encounter and daily powers to be re-used, up to the encounter/daily/utility slot limit. (i.e. more like the 3e sorcerer than wizard, to use caster examples)

Personally, I like the extra flexibility this offers. I like the logic that your slot count is a measure of your internal reserve and powers within each category are simply an equivalent amount of drain against this total. Most of all I like the idea of actually killing off Vancian mechanics rather than inflicting them on all the classes in a slightly modified form.

Thoughts?

 

[DeusExMachina]

One thing you take out of the game that way (or make less important) is to chose when you use your encounter/daily power. Yes, it's more versatile, but people will also be less inventive with their powers that way, I think...

 

[keterys]

The biggest problem is that it encourages more boring tactics in many situations - ie, a combat where someone opens with Charging Fire, does an easy Tidal Smash to knock the opponent into place for next round's Wind Slash, gets his ally to knock someone down then does Crushing Earth... is a lot more dynamic than

Round 1-4: Tidal Smash

 

[keterys]

Fwiw, I was considering offering the ability to recharge an encounter power by spending an action point or a daily power with three action points.

I'm not sold on the idea, but it would at least provide some option to do so.

I was also intending to make action points a bit easier to get, however.

 

[Rykaar]

Isn't there already a "recharge" on NPC/Monster abilities? It seems fair enough to offer a similar mechanic for PCs.

I see your point about discouraging creativity in combat if you can rely on the same old power time and time again. I guess the side of me that rails against Vance just gets angry seeing it in different clothing here. I feel like I'm encouraging creativity by imposing a completely clunky game mechanic.

The counterargument to your creativity claim is that allowing reuse of powers might also encourage the player to also choose less obvious powers for their repertoire in addition to the heaviest hitting ones--effectively allowing MORE creativity when the situation warrants it.

All that said, I like the recharge idea too. I'd probably go with one AP per encounter rather than every other.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Isn't there already a "recharge" on NPC/Monster abilities? It seems fair enough to offer a similar mechanic for PCs.

The reasons monsters get to do it is because of the formula involved. When there are 5 monsters and one shoots at range and immobilizes you, the other attacks in melee and sets you on fire, the 2 are tough and push you around and one does area of effect attacks.

The monsters have enough variety in what they are doing to make them interesting as an encounter so they don't need to be interesting enough individually.

Unlike PCs, where you are stuck playing your one character for an entire campaign and there should be some variety in your actions.

 

[Rykaar]

Unlike PCs, where you are stuck playing your one character for an entire campaign and there should be some variety in your actions.

I agree wholeheartedly, but it seems like the need to alleviate such tedium is one the player would want to make, but the current 4e system forces them to make the choice because of Neo-Vancian fire-and-forget mechanics.

I guess I'm still troubled by the idea that the only way to discourage players from re-using one power to their full slot limit is to simply not allow them to use it more than once. That seems like the cheap solution when a better one is giving them opportunities to react differently. Perhaps some players would find a way to be creative in their tactics without creativity being mandated.

Still, I find myself liking Keterys's approach more and more--having a slightly larger, more flexible AP pool seems even more rich in choices than simply allowing open power slots.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Isn't there already a "recharge" on NPC/Monster abilities? It seems fair enough to offer a similar mechanic for PCs.

Does that apply for all monster abilities? My impression was that the recharge was for solo monsters. A 5 PC party could enter a fight against a solo monster with up to 5 encounter and 5 daily powers to expend. The recharge allows the monster to possibly match the party in powers without making the DM have to keep track of exactly how many uses the monster still has, and roll to recharge helps balance the idea that the monster would never have anything less than a full complement of powers at the start of combat.

 

[Stalker0]

Its possible that some paragon and epic feats might let you do this.

Power Focus

Choose one encounter power that you have. From now on you can use the power twice per encounter. In order to use it the second time, you must spend an action point.

 

[Sunsword]

Fwiw, I was considering offering the ability to recharge an encounter power by spending an action point or a daily power with three action points.

I'm not sold on the idea, but it would at least provide some option to do so.

I was also intending to make action points a bit easier to get, however.

What I've thought about is allowing an Action Point to give an Encounter Power a Recharge Roll of 3+ & a Daily Power a recharge roll of 5+.

I'm not 100% sold on the idea, but I've at least thought about it.