Reading Group--Caesar's Legion

[Maldur]

Mmadsen:

quote:
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Sorry for the judgemental post, but from reading I get the feeling Ceasar is only out to improve is own person.
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Unlike the rest of us...

What I meant was the feeling I get, that in the later parts of the book. Ceasar seems to be using 'the tenth' as a tool ( to be used when needed and thrown away when not used). While at the start of the book, he seemed more like a part of the legion.

Shark:
Im not disputing Ceasar wasn't EXTREMELY good at his job! I can only be in awe of the speed, scale and efficientcy of the armies under his command. The Roman legions are spectacular. Im not questioning his skill but his mindset.

Besides: he was killed by his close personal friends. And you dont get stabbed to death if your a generally nice guy! So if your partners do such a thing, you have crossed a line somewhere.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Ah! I understand Maldur! Good to see you! I hope you have been well!

The differences in the way the Romans organized and supported their armies amazes me. The enemies simply were never in the same realm that the Romans were. The Romans had taken the concept of raising professional armies to a breakthrough level--a different, higher paradigm of thinking, if you will, than Rome's enemies. Time and time again, the Romans who physically were often certainly not "supermen" slaughter the enemy, even when the enemy has the Romans outnumbered, or enjoys some other advantage. Throughout the book, the whole range of little details that went into making up the Roman war machine shows why they were so superior to all of their enemies for over a thousand years! I love this book!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Maldur]

Actually those legions are scary!!

I really love those strange annacdotes: like the message on the javelin stuck in a tower for a day before the message is found. That stuff is great.

Shark: Yeah, I have been fine. I have been busy, I need to finish a 30 people freeform before the end of august, and do the writeup of last time ( luckily only headlines).

When is your first book coming? And what's it about?

 

[Maldur]

It might not be entirely on the topic at hand but: It has to do with legions and it is inspired by the book


Here some thoughts about the equipment issued to SHARK’s Valledarion Legions.

Thought 1:
As the equipment of the legions is very usefull and expensive, battlefield looting in SHARK’s world is very lucrative. I would think that enemies of the empire will use quite a lot of the captured equipment.

Thought 2:
In Runequest magical items can have USER CONDITIONS, a trait that would make the item more expensive ( as it would be harder to make) but it could only be used by certain people.

Thought 3:
Banners are important for large army units

Combined these would give: Legionair equipment ( magic items) would get the user condition: only usable by people who sworn their loyalty on the legions banner.

Problem: This would make the equipment more expensive, and the same items without the user conditions would be cheaper while they are more usefull ( so having a higher market price).

New idea:

What if magical item only work in the proximity of another item (like a banner).

So magical items of the legions work in the line of battle, and in camp (near the banner) but would not work when looted from a battlefield (except when a banner would be captured along with it). It would make a item cheaper as it is not self powered, and it would make the banners of a legion very important!!

Just a thought

 

[mmadsen]

It might not be entirely on the topic at hand but: It has to do with legions and it is inspired by the book

Here some thoughts about the equipment issued to SHARK’s Valledarion Legions.

We're discussing SHARK's Vallorean legions (and their enemies) over in the How Would You Defend A Mountain Fortress? thread.

 

[mmadsen]

Chapter VIII -- Broken Promises

Last we saw, Caesar was getting his nose bloodied by Afranius, fighting over a small hill outside Ilerda (now Lerida).

Afranius claimed the day's fight as a victory for his side, and messengers hurried away to italy with the news that Caesar had been bettered....Two days later, a storm brought the heaviest rainfall in memory to the region, washing away the two bridges behind CAesar, over which he was supplied. Afranius then led a raid in Caesar's rear, inflicting more than two hundred casualties on a column bringing up supplies and reinforcements.

Ouch! It just gets worse.

After failing to repair the bridges because opposition troops occupied the opposite bank, Caesar had his men build light, flat-bottomed boats, of a kind he'd seen in Britain, and was able to spirit troops across the water in the night and drive Afranius's men away from the bridge site. Once he was in occupation of both banks he was able to bridge the river and once more link up with his supply columns and foraging parties.

Very, very Caesar. If you're a Roman general, familiar with Caesar, as Afranius should be, don't you expect him to plan something fiendish and move all his troops at night?

 

[mmadsen]

Chapter VIII -- Broken Promises

Caesar's cavalry cleared the countryside of Afranius's foragers, and the Pompeian troops, locked behind the walls of camp and town, found themselves cut off from resupply, with dwindling resources....The Pompeians discreetly made their preparations, and then one day in July, carrying enough rations to last them twenty-two days, they took Caesar by surprise and succeeded in their breakout.

It certainly seems like a back-and-forth struggle.

Both sides built camps, but Caesar then worked his way around, across rough country, giving the appearance of a withdrawal but in reality aiming to skirt Afranius's position in a wide arc and place his forces in the other side's path at the foot of the mountains....A force of two thousand auxiliaries subsequently sent by Afranius to take high ground for him was cut off and wiped out by Caesar's cavalry, and the Pompeian army withdrew to the protection of its last camp and regained its equipment.

It seemed so close for a while there...

 

[mmadsen]

While Afranius and Petreius were away from their camp...troops from Caesar's...Legions began to fraternize with the fellow Spaniards of the...Legions on the other side. Many were fellow townsmen, some were even related, and before long men from Caesar's legions were in the Pompeian camp, sitting and talking and sharing food and camaraderie with their countrymen, all agreeing that it was crazy that they should be fighting each other. Officers from the Pompeian camp even went to Caesar and proposed setting up talks to negotiate the surrender of their army.

That's got to be awkward.

When they heard about this, Generals Afranius and Petreius hurried back to their camp....Petreius then ordered men who had troops from Caesar's army in their tents to produce them at once. Those who were given up...were put to death on the parade ground in front of the assembled Pompeian legions.

That's worse than being a guy caught in the girls' summer camp...

 

[Maldur]

Yes mmadsen, I know but :
I felt it was more appropriate here. It was inspired by the vex, and in the other thread your discussing ways to stop the legions, not outfit them.

 

[mmadsen]

Afranius and Petreius need grain to feed their troops, but the port of Tarraco (now Tarragona), where Pompey's fleet could supply them, is a week's march away. Nearby Ilerda (Lerida), that they just left, doesn't have much grain, but it's close. They march toward Ilerda.

Caesar's troops harry them. They only make it four miles before they set up a new camp and slaughter their baggage animals for food. Caesar builds his own camp two miles away and starts surrounding their camp with earthwords -- not so different from how he surrounded Vercingetorix in Alesia.

The Pompeians strengthened their defenses and watched the Caesarians work for three days until, at about three o'clock in the afternoon, General Afraniusled his whole army out of camp and formed his units up in battle order....Caesar marched out with his legions and formed up facing Afranius....There the two armies stood, staring at each other in silence, with Spaniard unwilling to fight Spaniard and neither side prepared to make the first move, until the sun went down.

Ooh, the tension!

The two armies then marched back to their respective camps.

Wow.

Caesar isn't in any hurry to kill Romans -- or to be accused of killing Romans -- to he takes his time, knowing Afranius has to surrender.

Caesar didn't have long to wait. The next day, August 2, Generals Afranius and Petreius sent envoys to Caesar, seeking a peace conference. But they wanted the conference to be out of the hearing of their men. Caesar would only agree to discuss their surrender out in the open, within earshot of the troops...

Clever. Caesar, of course, grants lenient terms to the rank-and-file troops. They even shout their approval.

What I didn't immediately understand was why he merely disbanded the Pompeian units. They were obviously getting along well with his men. Well, here's why:

On August 4, the men of the 4th and 6th Legions, now disarmed, wer formally discharged by Julius Caesar and told to go home. The men of both legions had been due for their discharge this year anyway, so this suited them just fine.