D&D General Reading Ravenloft the setting

[humble minion]

Good people have hope that things can get better.

So do bad people, or Azalin wouldn't have tried to escape all those times.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The modus operanti of the dark powers is totally different from the infernal outsiders or the standar psicopaths. They could kill and torture to cause suffering, but they would rather to be more futile and manipulate emotionally. It is like a conflict between two factions. One wants the redemption of the villains, as if there were noble souls in the past, and others want to avoid this because they want the eternal punishment of the cursed. Zariel, the archduchess of Avernus now.....she works for other faction. Are dark lords worse than Zariel?

Here the infernal outsiders are powerful, but rare. Here it is not the classic fight for the power, but other goals, maybe revenge, but why, which sin or crime?

The demiplane of the dread is like a Tantalean punishment, showing something you wish hardly but will never enjoy. Maybe the darklords could be free if they rejected the evilness, but they don't want exit the dark side of the Force, or a tricked to avoid this happened. The complete demiplane souns like a secret and grimm supernatural conspirancy, maybe about to be the prison of evil souls, but there is some reason those beings not to be sent to the infernal planes where could suffer psysical pain.

 

[Voadam]

I don't think it has ever been established that the Dark Powers are motivated by a desire to punish evil people for being evil. Which would kind of imply they are lawful good.

I don't generally take a desire to punish, even targeted at evil, as ultimately Lawful Good. A desire to punish is just a desire to inflict harm. Targeting evil is significantly less bad than targeting good, but it is not a good end of itself. It is an action hero morality to justify being a violent good guy that is fine for the game, but I don't think vengeance or hurting bad guys as an actual end goal actually stands up to moral evaluation.

In a Ravenloft game in particular I think someone who fights evil to punish it rather than to stop it can be a dark powers path.

I've always felt that the Dark Powers where the most evil of the lot, and probably feed upon negative emotion. The most evil people being the strongest source of negative emotions, the Dark Powers focus on torturing them in order to generate the maximum negativity. And they would much rather turn a hero evil than kill them.

I think it is explicitly not just negative energy. They trap only darklords and empower/curse only those corrupted beings who essentially doom themselves. A tortured victim is full of negative energy, but the dark powers do not generally seem to be directly farming mass victims, but the torture of specific self corrupted individuals. Mass badness seems incidental or a possible breeding ground for more darklords or the structure needed to support a darklord and his power/curse situation.

 

[Alzrius]

but the dark powers do not generally seem to be directly farming mass victims, but the torture of specific self corrupted individuals.

I still like the idea that the Red Death, of the Masque of the Red Death and Other Tales (affiliate link) campaign setting, was a Dark Power who was exiled for attempting to corrupt people who hadn't deliberately doomed themselves, and that's why all spellcasting in that setting requires a powers check.

 

[tetrasodium]

The modus operanti of the dark powers is totally different from the infernal outsiders or the standar psicopaths. They could kill and torture to cause suffering, but they would rather to be more futile and manipulate emotionally. It is like a conflict between two factions. One wants the redemption of the villains, as if there were noble souls in the past, and others want to avoid this because they want the eternal punishment of the cursed. Zariel, the archduchess of Avernus now.....she works for other faction. Are dark lords worse than Zariel?

Here the infernal outsiders are powerful, but rare. Here it is not the classic fight for the power, but other goals, maybe revenge, but why, which sin or crime?

The demiplane of the dread is like a Tantalean punishment, showing something you wish hardly but will never enjoy. Maybe the darklords could be free if they rejected the evilness, but they don't want exit the dark side of the Force, or a tricked to avoid this happened. The complete demiplane souns like a secret and grimm supernatural conspirancy, maybe about to be the prison of evil souls, but there is some reason those beings not to be sent to the infernal planes where could suffer psysical pain.

Another way you can summarize it quick for players in a way that should form a pit of "oh. My. God." And a corresponding will to at least consider dancing to the themes and such they think the Dark Powers are going for is this... "think of them like reality tv show producers with unlimited power toying with their "guests"

 

[Faolyn]

Many of the male darklords have a female related backstory, Strahd included. There has always been a fine line between Gothic Horror and Gothic Romance. One of the reasons for moving the setting away from exclusively Gothic.

There's a big difference in the way men are written and the way women are written, and it's far more common for women to be written as either desperate for men or hating men then the reverse and having that be the entirety of their purpose--as if women can't be complete without a man.

There are many more male Darklords who don't have backstories revolving around lust for or hatred of women. In the Core: Azalin, Harkon Lukas, Ivan Dilysnia (who desperately loved his sister, but otherwise doesn't seem to care), Hazlik (who doesn't have a background revolving around lust for or hatred of men, either), Tristan ApBlanc, "Death", Vlad Drakov, Adam, Lord Godefrey (who may hate women, but he rather hates everyone), Alfred Timothy, Gwydion the Sorcerer-Fiend (GOO, does it even know what romance is?), Malkin (although I admit his alter ego, Tristan Hiregaard, is cursed to kill any woman he loves, but Malkin himself doesn't care). The God-Brain wasn't interested in women, IIRC, and neither are Yagno Petrovna nor Frantisek Markov.

In the Core, only Strahd, Dominic d'Honraire, and Urik von Kharkov have "desperate for women" as part of their backstory.

But also in the Core, the female Darklords are:

Jacqueline Renier: desperate for love but can't have it without turning into a rat; apparently doesn't want cuddles or sex in rat form.
Ivana Boritsi: desperate for love but can't have it without poisoning the person she touches.
The Three Hags: who really like eating men and who hate women who are prettier then them; i.e., every woman, basically.
Gabrielle Aderre: wants a relationship but is kind of cursed to only have bad relationships and is also cursed to have kids who will harm her in some way.
The Lady of the Lake: wants to torment one specific man.

The only one female Darklords in the Core who don't seem to care about men are Inza--but she's such a terrible Darklord, with no motivation beyond being born evil, that she doesn't even count IMO--and the banshee Tristessa, who's obsessed with her child.

So basically, except for Inza the Crappy, all the female Darklords have men or children as their prime motivation.

 

[Savage Wombat]

So basically, except for Inza the Crappy, all the female Darklords have men or children as their prime motivation.

I wonder if this is more because these pre-millenial writers didn't write female characters well, or because they were too-closely imitating gothic period writers who didn't write female characters well?

 

[humble minion]

I wonder if this is more because these pre-millenial writers didn't write female characters well, or because they were too-closely imitating gothic period writers who didn't write female characters well?

The former I'd guess. I suspect the demographics and motivations of 2e-era female Ravenloft villains probably reflect pretty closely the demographics and motivations of 2e-era female non-Ravenloft villains. Male was simply the default there, for a while - female characters usually only got a gig when their 'femaleness' was plot-relevant.

 

[Tonguez]

Sorry to hear you've had bad week.

Lamordia is definitely a place that could benefit from a larger population. I could see adding a couple of tiny towns, each one dedicated to something like fishing/whaling, mining, or a factory of some sort. There has to be someplace in the domain that pumps out all the wires, metal sheeting, and glass that the mad scientists need!

I assume that you can still make golems the old-fashioned way in RL, but doing so requires a level head (and spellcasting, or a manual of golems) and let's face it, most people who are creating golems aren't level-headed.

Just noting that in 1664 there were 2,500 citizens in the Dutch settlement of New Amsterdam (Manhattan Island). Lamordia has a population of 3600 - and I always got that Dutch settlement vibe from the place

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I wonder if this is more because these pre-millenial writers didn't write female characters well, or because they were too-closely imitating gothic period writers who didn't write female characters well?

Given the significant contribution of female writers to both the literary genre (e.g. Mary Shelley) and the development of Ravenloft (e.g. Laura Hickman) I would say both those suggestions are overly reductionist.