Readying a Counterspell

[Matafuego]

Hello everyone!

Is it ok to ready an action to say:

If he casts a spell I don't like (spellcraft) or don't identify (just in case) I try to counterspell it otherwise I blast him with a Magic Missile.

Can the "otherwise" be included so as to not lose an entire round not counterspelling a spell I couldn't/didn't want to?

Thanks a lot!!

 

[Liquidsabre]

No "otherwise" condition is allowed (being a second condition), a readied action allows you to only set a single condition that will trigger a single readied action.

 

[drunkmoogle]

Readied actions are ajudicated differently in every game I've played in, ranging from uber-liberal to uber-conservative. In one game, "I ready an action to disrupt a spellcaster" may be enough, while another might require you to say "I ready a magic missile to dirsupt Bob's spell." I've never played a game where the DM allowed an "otherwise" scenario.

The books encourage a DM to be as strict as possible with readied actions.

 

[Matafuego]

But what is the difference to say:
When the Wizard begins casting a spell, I cast a spell (and you decide in that moment if you want to counterspell it, counter-dispel it, shoot him a Magic Missile, cast a Buff on yourself) ?

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Because there is some presumption that the act of 'deciding' takes more than an instant, and 'readied actions' are a way to simulate simultaneity in a turn-based system.

For example:

Bob: "I ready an action to counterspell the cleric."
DM: "Ok."
Dave: "I swing at the orc."
DM: "Ok, you hit it."
DM: "The cleric begins casting a spell."
Bob: "I make a spellcraft check to figure out what spell he is casting, then attempt to counterspell before he finishes."
DM: "Ok. He was casting Cure Light Wounds on the orc, but you counterspelled before he finished."

vs.

Bob: "I ready an action to counterspell the cleric if he casts a bad spell, otherwise I'll cast magic missile at him."
DM: "Ok."
Dave: "I swing at the orc."
DM: "Ok, you hit it."
DM: "The cleric begins casting a spell."
Bob: "I make a spellcraft check to figure out what spell he is casting."
DM: "Ok, you make your spellcraft check. He casts a cure light wounds on the orc."
Bob: "But I was going to counterspell."
DM: "But CLW isn't a bad spell."

or vs.

Bob: "I ready an action to counterspell the cleric if he casts a bad spell, otherwise I'll cast a spell at him."
DM: "Ok."
Dave: "I swing at the orc."
DM: "Ok, you hit it."
DM: "The cleric begins casting a spell."
Bob: "I make a spellcraft check to figure out what spell he is casting."
DM: "Ok, you make your spellcraft check. Are you going to counterspell?"
Bob: "No, I'll cast fireball."
DM: "Ok, so you're telling me in that split second, you recognize his spell, make the tactical decision not to counterspell, decided to cast fireball, pulled the bat guano from your pocket, decided precisely where you wanted it targeted, and completed the spell."

To me, only the first is consistent with what the rules say and what common sense dictates. More to the point, it keeps players from trying to hedge against every possible scenario with 'readied actions' whose verbiage is so tortured as to make 'Wish' spells seem succinct. Thus, it keeps the game moving and the DM from wanting to throttle the player.

 

[Li Shenron]

From a playability point of view, if you remain too strict about the READY action, be prepared that your players are going to learn that readying is not useful. Furthermore, Counterspell is a very weak tactic unless you have some extra feat which makes it easier. Not only it's hard to use, but players normally don't find it as fun as casting a normal spell against the opponents.

That said, I think it's absolutely correct by the RAW to allow to just "ready the casting of a spell" vs the trigger chosen. For instance, note there is no such thing as a specific counterspell action in the "actions in combat" chapter or table. And furthermore, from the counterspell chapter:

How Counterspells Work: To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. (You may still move your speed, since ready is a standard action.)

If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell’s level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent’s spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can’t do either of these things.

To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.

You may be tempted to think that if you fail the spellcraft check or don't have the right counterspell, you're stuck there frozen and cannot do anything, which is quite silly.

As I said, there is no such specific action as "casting a counterspell", there is just the "cast a spell" action, only that when you cast it (not when you ready it) you alter it slightly, which sounds similar to any other casting choices done at casting time.