Readying attack against spellcasters

[Speaks With Stone]

In my experience, few spell casters cast adjacent to an opponent. Most take a 5' and then cast. My GM would not let me use an either/or qualifier, so I settled on "I ready an action to attack if this guy moves." So if he takes a 5' step, I pound him with a readied action. If he casts a spell, I pound him with an AoO.

This trick works well if you outnumber the enemy, I've never been brave enough to try while outnumbered (which is most of the time).

 

[Greythax]

Not true, he can double move away and will not draw an AoO. If he moves and casts, runs, or attacks, he will draw one.

Actually, in the previous example, he had already *attempted* to cast, so he could no longer double move and would therefore suffer an AoO.


Greythax

 

[doktorstick]

I agree with Thanee: if you ready a melee attack and then make an AoO, you're giving up your "readied action", which is not ready anymore (or let's say "the trigger is long gone"). Hence, I would rule that you either make the AoO or the readied melee attack, which is exactly the same.

I don't know... I would probably allow someone an AoO while readied for three reasons:

1. 
   1. Readied actions have limited value as is. Removing the AoO while readied further marginalizes this tactic.
   
   2. An attack of opportunity is just that... an opportunity. A quick jab and your back into your "trigger" state to use the poster's language.
   
   If being distracted (by swinging at an opening) was cause enough for you to lose your AoO, regular combat would too. A readied action doesn't assume you are solely focused on one thing. You could be beat on by three fighters (and in turn ducking, dodging, and weaving) and still be readied to whack that spellcaster.
   
   3. PHB pg. 122 states: ...can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. As in no penalty or cost.

/ds

 

[Malin Genie]

I have a follow-on question which was the subject of some controversy in a game I played a few weeks ago.

I readied an action to grapple a spellcaster if he cast a spell.

He started casting, my readied action was triggered, and I moved in to grapple.

The point of contention was - can he take an AoO to prevent my grapple without abandoning his spellcasting?

I thought 'obviously not', but the DM thought that he could use his (one-handed) dagger to fend me off while continuing to cast (using his other hand to complete the somatic component.)

Is there a ruling on this?

Would it be different if he had a (two-handed) quarterstaff rather than a dagger? Or if he were unarmed?

(And a further follow-on; as a spell with an S component can't be cast at all when grappled, does a successful grapple as a readied action automatically disrupt a spell with an S component, or can the opponent complete the spell by making the standard (DC 15 + spell level) Concentration check even if it has an S as he had 'already started casting' when you got there?)

 

[Thanee]

There's no hard rule on that.

Closest one would be PHB p. 151 Concentration (first paragraph).

I'd allow the AoO, but force a Concentration check for Violent Motion.

And yes, I'd say the spell is automatically negated, as you effectively grapple him before he can cast the spell. Dunno if he would be able to change his action (like choose a different spell) then, but the ready rules are messed up anyways.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Gromm]

Why not just grapple him in the first place and avoid the whole issue?
Its really the DMs call I guess, but I can't see him stabbing you and still casting his spell, especially if it takes somatic gestures.

As far as the spell being disrupted, I agree with Thanee. Think of it this way, the wizard moves his hand in arcane motions, you grab his arm, bend it behind him and put him in a headlock. Hes not casting anything. And he can't change spells, he already declared his action as casting spell A, he cant change to spell B, hes already begun the words/gestures of the first spell. Switching gears isn't possible at this point.

 

[Malin Genie]

Why not just grapple him in the first place and avoid the whole issue?

Because if you grapple him 'on your turn', before he's started casting

(1) He definitely gets the AoO to try to fend you off
(2) He doesn't waste his action attempting to cast - even if you succeed in grappling him, then on his turn he could try to cast a spell without an S component, try to break your grapple, attack with a light weapon etc...
(3) He doesn't waste his spell