Readying attack against spellcasters

[Thanee]

Wrong! Only damage suffered DURING the casting (not during the same initiative count, there are no truely simultaneous actions in D&D) forces Concentration checks, which is only possible with continuous damage (special case), ready actions and attacks of opportunity.

BTW, if you delay to his initiative count, he could simply delay to one initiative count below that...

Readying against spellcasters only really works with ranged weapons. Forget readying with melee weapons, just smack him or even better grapple him!

Bye
Thanee

 

[doktorstick]

I found that melee "ready action" against a spellcaster was pointless as a previous poster suggested. However, ranged is very useful.

We had some disagreement about the generality of this statement: I want to ready an attack action against any enemy that starts casting a spell. At first blush this may seem overly general if the archer was on the ground. But what if he was on higher ground surveying the battle?

I tended to land on the side that watching multiple enemies, regardless of the situation, was overly general.

Thoughts?
/ds

 

[StealthyMark]

Sometimes you *have* to ready a melee attack against a spellcaster.

Consider the following scenario:
Bob, the dumb fighter, stays 25 feet away from an enemy wizard, Jack. Bob won initiative and decides to (partial) charge. He hits, does some damage. Jack survives the attack and *cast defensively* a spell (sometimes, Jack could simply step back 5 feet). Because Jack has max ranks in Concentration, he makes his Concentration check (DC 15+level). Since Bob does not get a AoO, Jack casts successfully his spell - it could be anything from Hold Person to Meteor Swarm. Bob is toast now.

Rick, the smart fighter, stays 25 feet away from an enemy wizard, Jack. Rick won initiative and decides to ready an action. "If Jack starts to cast a spell, I'll charge him." If Jack actually starts to cast a spell, Ricks readied action kicks in. Rick charges Jack *now* and if he hits, Jack faces a difficult Concentration check (DC 10+damage+level) to cast his spell sucessfully. If Jack decides to move away from Rick afterwards, Rick gets an AoO. If Jack stays, he faces a full attack from Rick. Either way, Jack is in a bad position. Someone may say: "If Jack doesn't cast a spell, Rick has wasted his action." The Answer: In this case, Rick was successful, too. Because his goal was to prevent Jack from casting a spell.

You see, you cannot always count on getting an AoO. Sometimes you have to act cleverly.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

indeed, but for one round only. thereafter, you'll be going in the same initiative as the poor caster, and all of your damage will count towards his concentration check.

You go on the same initiative count, but you act before the spellcaster, not at the same time. None of your damage you inflict in subsequent rounds will disrupt his spellcasting, unless you ready an attack again to disrupt his spellcasting or get an AoO.

also there's always the option of just voluntarily lowering your initiative to go in his ... right?

You may Delay your action to that count, but you cannot act until after the spellcaster finishes his actions. You cannot use Delay to interrupt his action.

 

[zyzzyr]

Thanks!

Hi all,

Thanks hong. I had skimmed the FAQ but apparently I should read and not skim. That was exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks to the others, too. I like StealthyMark's version of how things could happen - it could equally happen that you won't get an AoO as he cast defensively, and so readying an attack to interrupt the spell might be a better idea. Imagine if Jack was casting touch spells defensively. Bob finally smartens up and readies an attack if Jack casts a spell. This way, Bob gets a chance to disrupt the spell.

I guess this is one of those situations that is not really covered by the rules and does require an interpretation of sorts.

zyzzyr

 

[Oracular Vision]

Sometimes you *have* to ready a melee attack against a spellcaster.

snip

...If Jack decides to move away from Rick afterwards, Rick gets an AoO. ...

Not true, he can double move away and will not draw an AoO. If he moves and casts, runs, or attacks, he will draw one.

 

[Thanee]

Rick, the smart fighter, stays 25 feet away from an enemy wizard, Jack. Rick won initiative and decides to ready an action. "If Jack starts to cast a spell, I'll charge him." If Jack actually starts to cast a spell, Ricks readied action kicks in. Rick charges Jack *now* and if he hits, Jack faces a difficult Concentration check (DC 10+damage+level) to cast his spell sucessfully. If Jack decides to move away from Rick afterwards, Rick gets an AoO. If Jack stays, he faces a full attack from Rick. Either way, Jack is in a bad position. Someone may say: "If Jack doesn't cast a spell, Rick has wasted his action." The Answer: In this case, Rick was successful, too. Because his goal was to prevent Jack from casting a spell.

You see, you cannot always count on getting an AoO. Sometimes you have to act cleverly.

And Jack the even smarter Wizard will simply move 20' or so away from Rick (depending on terrain) and then cast the spell at a safe distance.

If Rick has a very high base movement (from Boots of Striding and Springing for example), Jack will be out of luck, tho, unless he has a likewise increased base movement.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Xarlen]

And Jack the even smarter Wizard will simply move 20' or so away from Rick (depending on terrain) and then cast the spell at a safe distance.

If Rick has a very high base movement (from Boots of Striding and Springing for example), Jack will be out of luck, tho, unless he has a likewise increased base movement.

Bye
Thanee

Jack's just better off moving his butt, or casting Defensive with Fly, to get himself off the ground and away from Rick AND the dumb fighter.

 

[Negative Zero]

thanks Thanee and Dr.Zoom, evidently my group has been playing it wrong all this time. someone's gonna be real disappointed next time we play! lol i was certain that i'd seen somewhere that damage taken in your initiative count forces a concentration check (for spell casting). or maybe i'd just heard it somewhere and i'm just all confused.

checking this out led me to another Q. so as not to hijak this thread, i started force a Concentration check? opinions would be appreciated

~NegZ

 

[Li Shenron]

I agree with Thanee: if you ready a melee attack and then make an AoO, you're giving up your "readied action", which is not ready anymore (or let's say "the trigger is long gone"). Hence, I would rule that you either make the AoO or the readied melee attack, which is exactly the same.

A possible controversy would be for a PC with 2 weapons: can he ready the longsword and make the AoO with the shortsword? Still, I'd say that you either let your readied action be triggered immediately OR you immediately get the AoO, and the other attack has lost the time to be.

Forgive me if my opinion sounds mean...