D&D (2024) Real Character Generation in 2024 PHB

[Yaarel]

Those aren't rules for creating custom backgrounds. Those are rules explaining how to apply what's written in a background description to a character you're creating, plus a statement saying a DM might provide you with more background options.

Compare that to the "Customizing a Background" section in the 2014 Player's Handbook: "To customize a background, you can replace one feature with any other one, choose any two skills, and choose a total of two tool proficiencies or languages from the sample backgrounds."

Read that part about tool proficiencies again. Now consult the 2024 PHB and tell me: What tool proficiencies are you allowed to pick from when creating a custom background? Does the restriction from the 2014 PHB still apply? You can't actually answer that without seeing the 2024 DMG.

The rules-as-written include any backgrounds that the DM decides on.

This means the same thing as "you and your DM agree on".

The rules are in black-and-white. I find it difficult to understand what you need the rules to say.

There rules are there. The DM is responsible for adding more backgrounds. The DM can add whatever backgrounds the DM wants. The DM can add a Freeform Background if the DM so decides.

The whole point is, the player doesnt get to invent a background without DM approval. So, if there is a certain background that a player wants, the DM needs to ok it. That is what the rules say.

 

[Epic Meepo]

The rules-as-written include any backgrounds that the DM decides on.

This means the same thing as "you and your DM agree on".

The rules are in black-and-white. I find it difficult to understand what you need the rules to say.

There rules are there. The DM is responsible for adding more backgrounds. The DM can add whatever backgrounds the DM wants. The DM can add a Freeform Background if the DM so decides.

The whole point is, the player doesnt get to invent a background without DM approval. So, if there is a certain background that a player wants, the DM needs to ok it. That is what the rules say.

None of the language in your post appears anywhere in the 2024 PHB. Those are all just things you're assuming based on the way things worked in the 2014 rules.

Yes, the DM can invent any rules they want. No, the 2024 PHB doesn't include any guidance for DMs wanting to create custom backgrounds.

Personally, I don't need the rules to include any guidance at all for creating custom backgrounds. I can easily figure it out. But that doesn't mean the 2024 PHB has rules for it.

 

[Yaarel]

None of the language in your post appears anywhere in the 2024 PHB. Those are all just things you're assuming based on the way things worked in the 2014 rules.

What are you talking about? I am quoting chapter 2 (Step 2, Choose a Background, page 36) and chapter 4 (Origin Components, Parts of a Background, page 177) of the 2024 Players Handbook. The same text is also in the Free Rules.

Yes, the DM can invent any rules they want. No, the 2024 PHB doesn't include any guidance for DMs wanting to create custom backgrounds.

It is more than that. The core rules require the DM to decide on a setting, and this includes deciding what backgrounds are in play.

Personally, I don't need the rules to include any guidance at all for creating custom backgrounds. I can easily figure it out. But that doesn't mean the 2024 PHB has rules for it.

Again. The 2024 Players Handbook includes the rules for the DM to offer a freeform background, and players can ask the DM for it.

 

[Epic Meepo]

What are you talking about? I am quoting chapter 2 (Step 2, Choose a Background, page 36) and chapter 4 (Origin Components, Parts of a Background, page 177) of the 2024 Players Handbook. The same text is also in the Free Rules.

I'm reading that same text, and I see no player-facing rules for creating custom backgrounds anywhere on any of the linked pages.

Chapter 2 says: "You can choose any of the backgrounds detailed in chapter 4, and your DM might offer additional backgrounds as options." That's it. Those are the two options covered in the PHB rules: the backgrounds in chapter 4, and whatever backgrounds your DM might offer. Note that it doesn't say what backgrounds the DM might offer and how they get created. It just says they might exist.

Chapter 4 then lists the "Parts of a Background," the same way it lists the "Parts of a Species." The paragraph immediately preceding "Parts of a Background" states: "Each background includes a brief narrative of what your character’s past might have been like. Alter the details of this narrative however you like." The "Parts of a Background" section then lists all the mechanical things a background includes. Unlike the previous paragraph, which actually does have explicit rules for changing the narrative of your character's past, this section doesn't provide any rules whatsoever about changing the mechanical details of a background; it simply lists what mechanics are present.

That's it. There are no player-facing rules for creating or customizing backgrounds (aside from changing the narrative details of your character's past). There is nothing equivalent to the "Customizing a Background" section from the 2014 PHB anywhere in the 2024 PHB, at all.

It is more than that. The core rules require the DM to decide on a setting, and this includes deciding what backgrounds are in play.

Sure. And all of the guidelines for doing that will appear in the 2024 DMG. There's no guidance (and there are certainly no rules) in the 2024 PHB about adding or subtracting backgrounds to fit the game setting.

Again. The 2024 Players Handbook includes the rules for the DM to offer a freeform background, and players can ask the DM for it.

No. The text you linked to doesn't say that. There's no mention whatsoever of "freeform backgrounds," whatever that means, and it doesn't encourage the player to ask their DM for anything. In the text you quoted, there is no indication that the player has any agency in the DM's creation of additional background options. Nor does the text explain how (or why) a DM creates additional background options.

If a new player's only exposure to D&D was the 2024 PHB, that player wouldn't even know the concept of custom backgrounds existed in the game.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm reading that same text, and I see no player-facing rules for creating custom backgrounds anywhere on any of the linked pages.

I said, "All the rules necessary for the DM to offer a Freeform Background are already here", in the 2024 Players Handbook.

All the rules necessary for the DM to offer a Freeform Background are already here.

That a player can choose from other backgrounds that the DM offers, is a player-facing rule.

Page 36: "You can choose any of the backgrounds detailed in chapter 4, and your DM might offer additional backgrounds as options."

 

[Epic Meepo]

I said, "All the rules necessary for the DM to offer a Freeform Background are already here", in the 2024 Players Handbook.

I don't know what you're talking about. There are no rules for DM's creating backgrounds in the PHB. The 2024 PHB says, "your DM might offer additional backgrounds as options." That's literally all it says about DMs and backgrounds.

If a recipe for chocolate chip cookies ends by saying, "When plating your chocolate chip cookies, you might want to add some peanut butter cookies as additional options for the people you're feeding," that's not a recipe for peanut butter cookies.

That a player can choose from other backgrounds that the DM offers, is a player-facing rule.

I agree. It's a player-facing rule for choosing from a list of pre-made backgrounds. A rule for choosing pre-made backgrounds isn't a rule for customizing or creating backgrounds.

Page 36: "You can choose any of the backgrounds detailed in chapter 4, and your DM might offer additional backgrounds as options."

Yes, thank you. That's the exact text I quoted earlier to show there are no rules for custom backgrounds in the 2024 PHB.

The 2014 PHB has an entire section called "Customizing a Background," which says you (the player) can alter your background, and then provides guidelines for (you, the player) changing the game mechanics of your own background. You (Yaarel) seem to be taking all of that text from the 2014 PHB as a given when interpreting what you're reading in the 2024 PHB. But none of text about customizing backgrounds is in the 2024 PHB.

The 2024 PHB has no section that says you (the player) can customize your background, and no section which provides any guidance for how to do that. The only thing it says is that you (the player) can change the narrative of your character's past as desired, which isn't what I'm talking about when I say "custom background." I'm talking about the "Customizing a Background" section in the 2014 PHB. There are no rules equivalent to that anywhere in the 2024 PHB.

If you don't believe me, try to answer this question using only the 2024 PHB: Is the restriction the 2014 PHB places on what tool proficiencies you can select when customizing a background still in place when creating a custom background using the 2024 rules? If you can cite text from the 2024 PHB which definitively answers that question, you can change my mind. Until then, I see no rules for custom backgrounds anywhere in the 2024 PHB, including the text you have cited in this thread.

 

[Yaarel]

I don't know what you're talking about. There are no rules for DM's creating backgrounds in the PHB. The 2024 PHB says, "your DM might offer additional backgrounds as options." That's literally all it says about DMs and backgrounds.

If a recipe for chocolate chip cookies ends by saying, "When plating your chocolate chip cookies, you might want to add some peanut butter cookies as additional options for the people you're feeding," that's not a recipe for peanut butter cookies.

I agree. It's a player-facing rule for choosing from a list of pre-made backgrounds. A rule for choosing pre-made backgrounds isn't a rule for customizing or creating backgrounds.

Yes, thank you. That's the exact text I quoted earlier to show there are no rules for custom backgrounds in the 2024 PHB.

The 2014 PHB has an entire section called "Customizing a Background," which says you (the player) can alter your background, and then provides guidelines for (you, the player) changing the game mechanics of your own background. You (Yaarel) seem to be taking all of that text from the 2014 PHB as a given when interpreting what you're reading in the 2024 PHB. But none of text about customizing backgrounds is in the 2024 PHB.

The 2024 PHB has no section that says you (the player) can customize your background, and no section which provides any guidance for how to do that. The only thing it says is that you (the player) can change the narrative of your character's past as desired, which isn't what I'm talking about when I say "custom background." I'm talking about the "Customizing a Background" section in the 2014 PHB. There are no rules equivalent to that anywhere in the 2024 PHB.

If you don't believe me, try to answer this question using only the 2024 PHB: Is the restriction the 2014 PHB places on what tool proficiencies you can select when customizing a background still in place when creating a custom background using the 2024 rules? If you can cite text from the 2024 PHB which definitively answers that question, you can change my mind. Until then, I see no rules for custom backgrounds anywhere in the 2024 PHB, including the text you have cited in this thread.

This is the "recipe" for the DM to create a new background. Page 177.

"

Parts of a Background​

A background includes the following parts.

Ability Scores. A background lists three of your character’s ability scores. Increase one by 2 and another one by 1, or increase all three by 1. None of these increases can raise a score above 20.

Feat. A background gives your character a specified Origin feat (described in chapter 5).

Skill Proficiencies. A background gives your character proficiency in two specified skills.

Tool Proficiency. Each background gives a character proficiency with one tool—either a specific tool or one chosen from the Artisan’s Tools category. Tools are detailed in chapter 6.

Equipment. Each background offers a choice between a package of equipment and 50 GP.

"

 

[Epic Meepo]

This is the "recipe" for the DM to create a new background. Page 177.

"

Parts of a Background​

A background includes the following parts.

Ability Scores. A background lists three of your character’s ability scores. Increase one by 2 and another one by 1, or increase all three by 1. None of these increases can raise a score above 20.

Feat. A background gives your character a specified Origin feat (described in chapter 5).

Skill Proficiencies. A background gives your character proficiency in two specified skills.

Tool Proficiency. Each background gives a character proficiency with one tool—either a specific tool or one chosen from the Artisan’s Tools category. Tools are detailed in chapter 6.

Equipment. Each background offers a choice between a package of equipment and 50 GP.

"

Parts of a Pizza
A pizza includes the following parts.
Bread. A pizza has a base made of bread.
Cheese. A pizza is topped with cheese.
Tomato Sauce. A pizza has tomato sauce on it.

That's a list of ingredients, not a recipe for baking a pizza.

Just like saying "three abilities, two skills, a tool, an origin feat, and an equipment package" isn't a set of rules or guidelines for selecting combinations of abilities, skills, tools, feats, and equipment.

Again, the 2014 PHB has rules saying you have to select tool proficiencies from a specific list when customizing a background. Does that restriction still apply in the 2024 rules? If you can answer that question using only the text in the 2024 PHB, I'm open to changing my mind. If you can't answer that question, then you can't create custom backgrounds using only the 2024 PHB.

 

[Iosue]

The point of my original post is that I don't believe the custom background "rules" in the DMG are going to be much beyond, "You can let your players create their own background by choosing their ASI (one at +2 and one at+1 or three at +1), one Origin Feat, two Skills, one Tool, and 50 GP worth of equipment." And then maybe some advice to new DMs for how to fluff Backgrounds to fit their worlds.

To whit (my bolding),

Compare that to the "Customizing a Background" section in the 2014 Player's Handbook: "To customize a background, you can replace one feature with any other one, choose any two skills, and choose a total of two tool proficiencies or languages from the sample backgrounds."

Read that part about tool proficiencies again. Now consult the 2024 PHB and tell me: What tool proficiencies are you allowed to pick from when creating a custom background? Does the restriction from the 2014 PHB still apply? You can't actually answer that without seeing the 2024 DMG.

That's the whole of the custom background rules in 2014. The stuff in the DMG only expands on it from the perspective of the DM, and integrating it in their world, and some advice for creating Background Features, which no longer exist in the 2024 rules.

And I don't see any restriction here about tool proficiencies. It says choose two from the ones provided in the sample backgrounds, which cover all the tools with the single exception of the Poisoner's kit, proficiency of which is only available in the Assassin subclass. I mean, technically that's a restriction, but it's hardly salient. The game certainly wouldn't break by a custom background that provided proficiency in the Poisoner's kit, and I doubt the designers actually intended to wall it off.

With the simplification of Backgrounds in 2024 (no special features, no BIFT tables), it's easier than ever to create a custom background, and the PHB lists everything that's needed. I mean, I suppose the DMG will provide a line like the above, but it's not necessary.

 

[SlyFlourish]

I just built a bunch of pregens for a game I'm running and converted two of my Adventurer's League characters to 2024 and the background step is the clunkiest part by far. It'd have been so much better if the default was adding bonuses during the ability score step and the feat being a separate option from background. Sure, recommend a default as part of the class step but monkeying around with backgrounds is really tedious.

Sure, there are options for flexible backgrounds in the book. That should have been the default.