Real Life 3D Dungeon (ala the Comstock Lode)

[phindar]

I saw a show on History Channel a little while ago (Wild West Tech, maybe) that detailed the Comstock Lode silver mine. The mine was dug in sandy ground, and so deadly cave-ins were frequent. The solution was something called Square-Set Timbering, in which old railroad ties were fashioned into cubes, and were put into the mine as it was excavated. There is a pic of it here. Or if you prefer, here's a pic of a model:

In a lot of ways, its a big open honeycomb. (Supposedly, that's where the inventor-- Philip Deidesheimer-- got the idea.) Watching the tv show I thought to myself, "What a bleeping great idea for a dungeon."

I wonder what the best way to represent the open nature of the 3D dungeon would be, particular on a 2D battlemat (short of breaking into whatever museum displays that model and stealing it, which is not off my options list just yet).

This site has some interesting info on it about the Comstock Lode in general. Apparently the way the veins of silver intertwined, leading to many conflicts between the owners of different veins. "Disagreements over mining rights followed the mines underground, and rival companies hired gunmen to fight when mining tunnels intersected." Aside from the idea of a honeycomb dungeon, having mine owners hire pc's to protect their claims is a neat idea.

Fans of the third season of Deadwood will remember George Hearst (as played by Major Dad, always happy to see that guy getting work), and the many references to the Comstock Lode.

 

[dragonlordofpoondari]

wow. that mine is really something. the matrix might get a little monotonous for running adventurers through. i mean, look at the size of that thing.

i always thought the catacombs below paris made for a cool dungeon. i'd maybe have something similar extending out from the necropolis into the rest of an urban area ... zombies pop out of the tavern floor ... instant hook. hey, that would fit nicely into ptolus.

obviously you never watched simon & simon. that actor played AJ's truculent private-eye brother long before he played a major anything. after all, we had to watch something after cosby show, family ties, and magnum PI (in that order ... thursday nights were nifty-keen-o and apparently fixed deeply into my fragile mind).

btw, deadwood is the best. and i'd rather dine in cake town than the olive garden.

 

[phindar]

You wound me sir. I grew up on Simon & Simon. Did you perchance see their crossover episode with Magnum, P.I. It was the stuff legends were made of. "Major Dad" is just an easier way to refer to him than "The older brother on Simon & Simon." (He was also married to Delta Burke, if memory serves, and was on a companion show to Touched by an Angel, though I can't remember the name. Odd jump to go from that to flip-flarm-flippin' corkstuffin' Deadwood.) Gerald McRaney.

For D&D purposes, the cubes would have to be either 5x5 or 10x10. (Designing a dungeon made of 6' cubes on a 1"=5' battlemat would just be too much trouble.) 10x10 might work best, though the idea of a 6' human fighter having to duck under a 5' beam every 5' would make combats a little more interesting. Are there any good rules out there for fighting in confined spaces?

 

[dragonlordofpoondari]

alright, alright. thank god i'm not the only one. is that really true about delta burke? blech! that poor man should get a metal of honor for plundering that demonic obliette.

re:combat, I believe normal rules would apply for a 10x10. I'd tack on ye olde -4 to some sensible stuff if fighting in a 5x5 space.

EDIT: oh yeah, i totally remember the crossover episode now that you mention it. that was indeed a savory one.

 

[Thunderfoot]

You wound me sir. I grew up on Simon & Simon. <snippy>

"Well, you know the Navy, it's not just a job its a damn adventure...." (Fav S&S quote)

OP -sorry for the confusion, but what do you mean by best way to represent the open 3d feel on a 2d battlemat. If memory serves me correct, when in operation, they used a mixture of water, sand and straw to make a kind of underground stucco to slather on the framework to make walls. (You can see evidence of this in the pic provided) All the illistrations were to show the 'engineering' aspect of the design, IIRC. Actual working versions were 'closed off'. Which makes since since that would reduce accidents from falling tools, etc. (not that safety was too high on the priority list).

If you wanted to recreate this - my suggestion would be to use 'popcicle sticks' (you can find all types at craft stores to include staight planks). Some white glue and time could eaisly recreate this design, the only problem I foresee is that you would have to build from the bottom up, with each piece sitting on top of the other and you would have to cover over the whole model and reveal it a level at a time. (Might be a bit wonky) I would be more afraid of breaking it as I moved between levels. At aminimum though I would always have the level immediately below and then the current level on the table. Just my opinion though. Terrain like this will be fragile (I used similar things in the past) so if you are looking for permanent, this style is not going to cut it, however, the ease of creation and repaire on the fly factor is very high, and overall cost is very low, so the trade off is worth it IMO.

 

[phindar]

I'm a great fan of popcicle stick design, having made windmills, watch towers, bridges, siege towers, wagons, cabins, gallows and outhouses out of them. (For some reason, despite not playing wargames, I love making the terrain. Properly painted, craft wood looks pretty good on the table.) I've thought about doing that for building interiors, for barfights and the like. Making the Comstock Lode in popcicle sticks though would be quite the undertaking, even a smaller D&D sized one. I would love to make something that approximates the model in the pic, but it looks like a lot of work and probably only of limited usefulness. (Unless one was going to base a campaign off the Comstock Lode, which is a neat idea but who knows when I could get around to that. Might be easier to base a campaign off Simon & Simon, maybe an half elf and half orc-- brothers from other mothers-- who fight crime.)

I wonder what the best way to represent a 3D dungeon short of building an actual 3D model would be? Maybe a dry erase board (or whatever) set up by the table with a side view of the dungeon so far explored, and then individual scenes set up on the battlemat. I like the idea of a fight going on on multiple levels, so that if the fighter falls through the floor on one level (due to trapped sections, water damage, grappling a heavy foe) he might land admist the rogue's fight on a lower level. Or in a more open cavern filled with these cubes, a rogue might climb upwards in order to fire down at enemies, or enemies might fire down at the party from above.

I guess it would be similar to tracking a combat with multiple flying opponents, or a battle on the Elemental Plane of Air.

Edit: I'm 90% sure on the Delta Burke thing. Though this was back during the Designing Women days and I have no idea if they are still married. (The tabloids are so obsessed with Brangelina, we never hear anything about Gerald and Delta anymore.)