Realism! Versamilitude! Other Words!

[Jon Wake]

I swear to crap, the next person who tries to claim 3e was remotely realistic in any way, shape, or form is getting a boot to the head.

Do you know what happens when you stab a soldier of twenty years in the chest with a sword? They die. Period. Do you know what happens when you fall 50 ft onto stone? You die. Goodnight, Gracie.

I'm sorry, did I break your suspension of disbelief?

And what, I ask, made 3e, or 2e, or 1e, or any D&D game ever any good for social roleplaying? Really, what is your measure of success in that regard?

Have you ever picked of Burning Wheel? Unknown Armies? Reign? You know, games that actually put some effort into social systems?

Because D&D has always had a crap system for social encounters. In fact, any system, at this point, is better than no system.

You don't like the combat mechanics to 4e? Groovy. You think that the flattening of the power curve nerfs wizards? Okay, that's acceptable. Hell, you can even think that the Dragonborn are one of the more retarded races in a long history of retarded races.

But seriously, realism? As in, 'I used to be able to get stabbed with a sword in the chest 40 times and now only 20 times, but a quick rest will put me back on my feet' realism?

If 3e, or any D&D game approached anything like realism in your mind, you need to get out of the house, or get on some medication, because reality and D&D are living on opposite sides of the world.

 

[Lackhand]

Deep breaths, old chum

While I agree with you completely, you might try to be less confrontational in your posts.
Even when you're objectively, absolutely, my-hand-to-deity-of-choice right.



Whur'd my hand go?

 

[MaelStorm]

I agree. And yes, lately I thought on getting back to medication (as you mention above) because I always hoped that WotC would at least implement some rules in a Core Book for people who want to add another kind of experience to their D&D game. In the end I decided to take the red pill instead (it was not easy) and enjoy it as it is. Clearly realism and D&D doesn't fit together.

 

[1of3]

Why is this marked as humor? It's true.

 

[Halivar]

I think 3E and 3.5E were (and are) great systems for what they were designed for. I also have every reason to believe 4E will also be a great system for what it was designed for.

Both are designed with similar goals: fun with just enough believability (not realism!) to allow immersion. They take incredibly different tacks, and that's okay. One is not better than the other, but I am looking forward to the change in scenery.

 

[TerraDave]

some good points...not sure how long this thread will be open...but decent points.

I guess the counter argument is that those last little bits of grit--taking time to heal from wounds, fine differentiation of skill, the incorporation of all sorts of corner cases and non-adventuring options (that you would never use), things that seem like magic being magic...--are being sanded away. Leaving something grit free and too plasticy.

But I actually think it will be fine. Everything will be fine.

 

[Wormwood]

Loud noises!

 

[howandwhy99]

1. Didn't think 3e did all that much for suspension of disbelief.
2. Not to worry, I can get that suspension back.
3. Some of those games kept the rules out of my headspace so I could roleplay without metagaming.
4. I've played and/or read all those and like a good bit or more about each. Not my taste though, as I said, too metagamey.
5. Actually, no system is still the best system until dispute arises. IMO, of course.
6. Don't really know on the combat system. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the return of the power curve. And I'm down with the dragonborn.
7. Yes, realism. Or more accurately the veri-simili-tude dude. (No boot to head please!) But not seriously. hard core realism. Beer and pretzels, man. We ain't killing ourselves over here over it like some of those wargamers. (the pikers!)
8. There's a difference between D&D reality and our reality to be sure. The power of the PCs goes up with every system change. It's just one of those things. Like toys that play for you. And entertainment you watch endlessly, but don't participate in or think too much about. Tastes change. The world goes on.

Take care man.

 

[Darrin Drader]

You think that the flattening of the power curve nerfs wizards? Okay, that's acceptable.

Hell, the flattening of the power curve was one of the top selling points for me for 4E. The thing I never liked about 3.x was that the power curve was more of a power diagonal. It started out steep and stayed just as steep until you hit Epic, at which point it got even steeper. That's about the opposite of realistic and more like anime (and the only anime I've ever liked was Star Blazers!!!)

Hell, you can even think that the Dragonborn are one of the more retarded races in a long history of retarded races.

It kind of fits with the philosophy of making every monster a potential player race like we got right around the release of 3.5, so I'm OK with it. I don't necessarily think it deserves to be core, less so than tieflings and they're pretty borderline in my opinion, but I can deal with it.

But seriously, realism? As in, 'I used to be able to get stabbed with a sword in the chest 40 times and now only 20 times, but a quick rest will put me back on my feet' realism?

Actually the new rules have you getting stabbed in the chest more times at earlier levels without dying. When you stop to consider that the game theory is that the armor is deflecting it, or you naturally move just so to the side so that the blade skewers your pectoral muscles rather than your heart, it makes sense.

If 3e, or any D&D game approached anything like realism in your mind, you need to get out of the house, or get on some medication, because reality and D&D are living on opposite sides of the world.

Keep in mind that D&D characters are a cut above normal people. Remember the first episode of tha last season of That '70s show? You've seen Kelso fall off the water tower dozens of times, stand up, dust himself off, and walk away while their new friend fell off once and died. Why did that happen? Because new guy was a normal NPC while Kelso was at least 10th level. Same concept.

Of course That '70s show was pretty far from reality, so point taken.

 

[Jdvn1]

Life isn't like Order of the Stick?