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<blockquote data-quote="Dinkeldog" data-source="post: 4094138" data-attributes="member: 195"><p>There are a few differences between Complete Mage and 4E. For one, if you don't like Complete Mage, in whole or in part, then the obvious answer is to say, "Okay, then don't use the part/whole that you don't like." I know a lot of books that came out for 3/3.x that my groups didn't like in whole or part and we ignored them. </p><p></p><p>4E is a little different--if you dislike the whole, you're going to be agreeing to live with the (more) static 3.x since it won't have any more "official" products coming out for it. If you dislike some aspects of 4E, then, well, houserule them or ignore them. When 3E came out, there were tons of houserules for everything from the kinder, gentler half-orc to non-spellcasting rangers. </p><p></p><p>Another difference is that we have yet to see 4E operate in a campaign setting. I've run official modules at GenCon--they did not come close to the breadth and scope of the entire 3E ruleset, so it's pretty easy to assume that the D&DXP modules could give us a preview, but won't give us access to the full range of rules and options that the ultimate edition gets us. Basically, when we argue about something we dislike about 4E, it's like (stealing from "Latter Days") holding the Sunday comics up to your face so that it's just a bunch of dots. We don't see the whole picture yet--and won't for another 2-3 months (depending on how much comes out in H1, we might get a better look).</p><p></p><p>As for healing surges, I think the goal is to take the one class that specializes in healing (and the other class which isn't even in the PHBI) out of a "necessary" slot in the party. All the other classes, mix and match, but you MUST have a Cleric (or Druid) in order to survive the first few levels. And then the Cleric could take any number of nifty spells that they'd then have enormous group pressure to swap out for CLW. Hopefully healing surges will de-couple the train of thought that you must have a cleric who at low levels is a walking band-aid.</p><p></p><p>Other complaints like endless magic missiles seem to me to place a different value on the flavor of a mage. I'd rather have a mage have a less powerful magical effect than their daily/encounter effects to use as an attack form (in a game where combat regularly occurs) than using the crossbow over and over--there's something that says "mage" about casting a spell as the primary form of damage.</p><p></p><p>For me, the thing I didn't particularly care for from the preview that I got from reports from D&DXP is the saving throws. I like that 4E seems, by varying accounts, to be getting away from save-or-die effects, but I still would like to think that a spell cast by a 30th level caster is harder to resist than one cast by a 30th level caster--and the scaling from 3/3.x while a step in the right direction, still never sat right with me. That's something that I'll likely houserule in some fashion for my own campaigns. </p><p></p><p>As all things go, with D&D, YMMV. And that's fine. Once 4E is live, there will likely be a place to discuss all the things that people are unhappy with and how half-elves got the shaft, and the house rules that people are going to use to help balance them out a little. </p><p></p><p>Until then, a good way to self-moderate is to look at your post and say, "Is this something that I have brought up in every thread no matter how off-topic it is?" If you find yourself repeating yourself over and over, then it might not really need a post.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dinkeldog, post: 4094138, member: 195"] There are a few differences between Complete Mage and 4E. For one, if you don't like Complete Mage, in whole or in part, then the obvious answer is to say, "Okay, then don't use the part/whole that you don't like." I know a lot of books that came out for 3/3.x that my groups didn't like in whole or part and we ignored them. 4E is a little different--if you dislike the whole, you're going to be agreeing to live with the (more) static 3.x since it won't have any more "official" products coming out for it. If you dislike some aspects of 4E, then, well, houserule them or ignore them. When 3E came out, there were tons of houserules for everything from the kinder, gentler half-orc to non-spellcasting rangers. Another difference is that we have yet to see 4E operate in a campaign setting. I've run official modules at GenCon--they did not come close to the breadth and scope of the entire 3E ruleset, so it's pretty easy to assume that the D&DXP modules could give us a preview, but won't give us access to the full range of rules and options that the ultimate edition gets us. Basically, when we argue about something we dislike about 4E, it's like (stealing from "Latter Days") holding the Sunday comics up to your face so that it's just a bunch of dots. We don't see the whole picture yet--and won't for another 2-3 months (depending on how much comes out in H1, we might get a better look). As for healing surges, I think the goal is to take the one class that specializes in healing (and the other class which isn't even in the PHBI) out of a "necessary" slot in the party. All the other classes, mix and match, but you MUST have a Cleric (or Druid) in order to survive the first few levels. And then the Cleric could take any number of nifty spells that they'd then have enormous group pressure to swap out for CLW. Hopefully healing surges will de-couple the train of thought that you must have a cleric who at low levels is a walking band-aid. Other complaints like endless magic missiles seem to me to place a different value on the flavor of a mage. I'd rather have a mage have a less powerful magical effect than their daily/encounter effects to use as an attack form (in a game where combat regularly occurs) than using the crossbow over and over--there's something that says "mage" about casting a spell as the primary form of damage. For me, the thing I didn't particularly care for from the preview that I got from reports from D&DXP is the saving throws. I like that 4E seems, by varying accounts, to be getting away from save-or-die effects, but I still would like to think that a spell cast by a 30th level caster is harder to resist than one cast by a 30th level caster--and the scaling from 3/3.x while a step in the right direction, still never sat right with me. That's something that I'll likely houserule in some fashion for my own campaigns. As all things go, with D&D, YMMV. And that's fine. Once 4E is live, there will likely be a place to discuss all the things that people are unhappy with and how half-elves got the shaft, and the house rules that people are going to use to help balance them out a little. Until then, a good way to self-moderate is to look at your post and say, "Is this something that I have brought up in every thread no matter how off-topic it is?" If you find yourself repeating yourself over and over, then it might not really need a post. [/QUOTE]
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