Really, No PC Gnomes! Stop Asking!

[Stoat]

Is this the right place to gripe about the lack of steampunk-technomagical-tinkerish gnomes in 4E?

Cause I likes me some steampunk-technomagical-tinkerish gnomes

 

[Cadfan]

I just played a Human Fighter in an original D&D adventure with the original, straight-rolled, 3d6 base stats of 3/13/7/11/7/6. His flaws (a fighter with a Str 3?!) and general mediocrity made for some fantastic role playing, though WotC would likely have deemed this character "unplayable". D&D 4E is still a role playing game, right?

I think you are playing a joke on us.

 

[Keenath]

Wow. That's a bit patronizing. Ok, I can understand not rolling for stats in an RPGA module or event. Keeps everything fair for everyone. But being that uptight about a game makes whoever wrote it sound like there's a stick where the sun don't shine.

Not at all. It doesn't say "If you use this, you're an idiot." It says, "You can use this method if you want, but understand exactly what you're getting into..."

It's just fair warning combined wtih the reasoning of why they decided to make and array the standard method.

Oh, and fifth (or whatever) the request for the OP to explain what it is he thinks is missing that makes it hard to play a Gnome PC.

The lack of racial feats is meaningless; it's a slightly smaller amount of flexibility -- you still get the same number of feats, so there's no power loss, and certainly not enough to make Gnomes "unplayable".

He mentioned race not mattering if you're a Gnome -- which is clearly false, since the powers provided are designed to remain interesting and useful through all levels rather than fading out once you get 3rd level spells, etc.

 

[~Johnny~]

I can't wait to play a gnome. All the rules are there in the MM. All you're missing is racial feats, which are by no means a must-have. (I would suspect that around half of 10th level characters will have picked up a racial feat somewhere along the way.)

In general, you could almost say that feats are not a must-have. Now that powers are available to everyone, feats are not the totally character-defining choices they were in 3e. Some are more powerful than others, and the ones that grant a skill bonus + something else tend to be nice (like Alertness). But a lot of racial feats trigger off rare events (like crits or encounter powers) or grant low bonuses. That's why multiclass feats aren't (quite) as bad as they initially seem, since giving up a feat for a power swap ain't so bad.

 

[Jawsh]

That suggests that s/he thinks that there's something missing or broken that NEEDS to be there to run a gnome PC. But there's no indication of what this missing element is. I'd like to know because I have a player who might want to make a gnome this time around - especially given the facelift gnomes have gotten this time around.

It is my understanding that the Player's Handbook races gain special powers and abilities as they increase in level. The main method for doing this is via specially alloted "racial feats" and every race in the PH has a few to choose from. The gnome, being a monster, has no such racial progression. You can play a 1st level gnome, but once you advance, you won't have the same racial progressions as everyone else. Either you do without (not that bad a prospect, since the racial bonuses won't necessarily make or break a character), or your DM makes one up for you (or, ideally, some kind of joint effort). Or you look and see if anyone in the computer has made one (hint: they have. look at post #7 in this thread).

 

[Cadfan]

I think they should have embraced the most common, beloved character generation system of 4e.

Roll 4d6, drop the lowest. Repeat 6 times. Then do it a seventh time, and drop the lowest of the 7. If your DM catches you, claim that's how the rules say to do it, and your last DM always let you do it that way. If he shows you the PHB, express shock that you are wrong. Review your results. Are your first 6 rolls awesome even without the 7th? If so, apologize and remove the 7th, and keep the remaining rolls. If not, apologize and reroll from scratch. Review THOSE results. Are they awesome? If so, keep them. If not, make puppy dog eyes at the DM and ask if you can reroll because your stats "don't fit your concept." If he lets you, do so. If not, grumble about how your character is unplayable. Act sarcastic and depressed, and make it clear that you will not take one moment of pleasure in this campaign if you are forced to play this character. If the DM does not relent, have your character do stupid things in game. When your character dies, proclaim that he would have survived if he wasn't gimped. Reroll a new character.

 

[DylanCB]

Wait, so they are like 3E races, then? Well, except they can turn invisible per encounter. They have the bonuses of Tieflings (whose racial feats stink) and are basically scrawny, charming, genius Predators. Um, I wouldn't make a racial feat for that kinda critter. It seems powerful to begin with.

Seriously, pick class powers and normal feats that make what you consider to be a Gnome. They're already better than Tieflings.

 

[Jer]

You can play a 1st level gnome, but once you advance, you won't have the same racial progressions as everyone else. Either you do without (not that bad a prospect, since the racial bonuses won't necessarily make or break a character), or your DM makes one up for you (or, ideally, some kind of joint effort). Or you look and see if anyone in the computer has made one

This is exactly what I want to know. The OP said that gnomes were "unplayable", but a lack of racial feats doesn't make the gnome "unplayable" - it may may it sub-optimal, but that's a completely different argument (and one that the OP seems to be on the opposite side of with regards to dice rolling policy, leading to some confusion on my part).

Wizards never said that the write-ups in the MM would be exactly like the ones in the PHB - in fact they claimed exactly the opposite. They said there would be enough there to get you started but that you'd be missing the racial feats until they get a full write-up for gnomes done in another book. They said that gnomes would be playable but not as flexible as the core races until that happened. Your suggestion indicates that this is true, but that's a completely different thing from gnomes being "unplayable" as written.

(hint: they have. look at post #7 in this thread).

Ya. Post #7 was making a similar point. The lack of a racial feat progression doesn't make gnomes unplayable, though it cuts the optimization options down for characters of that race.

So is it the case that gnomes are a fully playable, if possibly sub-optimal, racial choice out of the box, and the OP was engaging in some hyperbole? (Hyperbole? On teh interwebs? Horror! Shock!) That's all that was "promised" and that's all I'm expecting, so if that's the case I'm not worried.

 

[ShadowyFigure]

Gnomes turn invisible if attacked. Once an encounter until the end of their next turn i think or is the beggining... hmmm

 

[National Acrobat]

Even given the info from the Racial Traits chapter in the MM, there is no way you can play a PC gnome.

I'm a little disappointed because I'm pretty sure we were led to believe there would be enough there to tide us gnome PC players to their inclusion in a PHB.

.

If you are the DM, you can decide which races to have as PCs and which to not, like me. Remove Dragonborn and Tiefling, replace with Gnome and Half-Orc.

There you go.