Reaper's Challenge (Swordmage Daily 15) and Absentee Tanking

[Nifft]

Swordmages do a great job of defending by running away.

It's a good, valid Shielding Swordmage tactic generally.

Why not allow it to work? (Or if you don't want it to work, consider just getting rid of the whole Swordmage class. That's more honest to players.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

I'm actually with the OP on this one. I don't like this tactic and I normally LOVE Swordmages for the whole kiss-and-tell schtick. Consider this a second for interwyrm's idea - if the Swordmage hits and then decides to leave the combat, I would rule 'end of the encounter' for the power. What does leaving the combat mean? Clearly that's pretty subjective, but I think it would occur at the end of the swordmage's turn when all of the following occur:

1) He (or she) leaves the area that the marked creature could affect in a single turn (including moves and charges)
2) He is not engaging any enemies
3) He is not within (Speed x 2) of any allies
4) He is not attempting to provide direct support to an ally outside of Reaper's Challenge.

Or in other words, if the swordmage moves somewhere where he could take a short rest, the power should end.

 

[Obryn]

I think requiring LoE is a perfectly valid way to handle any situation like this.

-O

 

[NMcCoy]

You can't take a rest while sustaining a power. Given that, I'd have no problem with it, were I the DM. The other players might, but that's something they'll need to sort out amongst themselves after the battle.

 

[Josep]

I think the hit and make the target chase is a valid tactic. In a different party, it might be difficult (target is marked by the fighter) or impossible (the remaining party forms a solid barrier) for the target to pursue the swordmage.

Other controllers have other dailies that really interfere with creatures. (The bard has one that gives +Cha hp whenever the creature makes an attack roll, for example). Likewise, there are monsters (lurkers) that excel at hit-n-run tactics. It's a very reasonable response to dealing with a monster that is trying to kill you.

 

[Starfox]

I think the hit and make the target chase is a valid tactic. In a different party, it might be difficult (target is marked by the fighter)...

Oh, the party does have a fighter. And Reaper's Challenge is not a mark, so the fighter can mark the critter and lock it down pretty good while Reaper's Challenge in at work.

The player's point of view is that I should NEVER use lone monsters, solo or not. When I do, they will be nerfed by Reaper's Challenge. Considering how the Swordmage attacks, I can kind of understand this argument.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I'm actually with the OP on this one. I don't like this tactic and I normally LOVE Swordmages for the whole kiss-and-tell schtick. Consider this a second for interwyrm's idea - if the Swordmage hits and then decides to leave the combat, I would rule 'end of the encounter' for the power. What does leaving the combat mean? Clearly that's pretty subjective, but I think it would occur at the end of the swordmage's turn when all of the following occur:

1) He (or she) leaves the area that the marked creature could affect in a single turn (including moves and charges)
2) He is not engaging any enemies
3) He is not within (Speed x 2) of any allies
4) He is not attempting to provide direct support to an ally outside of Reaper's Challenge.

Or in other words, if the swordmage moves somewhere where he could take a short rest, the power should end.

This is why the whole "encounter" as a defined unit of time/space is a crock of pure crap. An encounter ends when its over. The encounter doesn't have to be over just because someone or even the whole party withdraws. What about pursuit? Is an ongoing chase no longer an encounter because the quarry has enough of a lead to break LOS?

If the creature decides not to pursue or gives up the chase and goes elsewhere then the encounter might be over. Moving the party to the room next door should not end the encounter.

 

[Herschel]

This is the Swordmage utilizing a wee bit of control, as they can sometimes do. If this enrages the enemy to the point where he targets the swordmage exclusively in retaliation, then good job defender. If the enemy decides that his rider effects are good enough he can ignore dealing damage, then again, good job defender.

Jay

Exactly. Plus, why should the Swordmage sit around trying to get beat on every encounter? I see you say there's also a Fighter in the group. The Swordmage using this power allows for better party resource management. If the Swordmage can soak up more damage earlier in the "day", then the Fighter has more left for fighting the BBEG AND takes less damage overall from the BBEG.

That's just good tactics. Learn from them and have a Lurker in the next room.

 

[DracoSuave]

Saying the swordmage is in the other room 'is leaving the combat' is like saying going to the bathroom is a good way to end an argument.

It isn't, and you've probably got an angry woman waiting for you once you're done your little pee break.

Or maybe she'll follow you in because you forgot to put a lock on the door.

It's not 'Left the combat' it's 'oh, he's over there taking a pee break I could go get him if I bothered to take a move action or two, followed by a charge.'