Rebalancing the Summon Monster spells

[nameless]

It's pretty widely thought that the Summon Monster I-IX spells are underpowered, especially on the lower end. I have personally found that to be true, and never really tested them at the medium to high levels. Today I finally decided to do some mathematical analysis on the CRs and whatnot of the various creatures summonable; here are my results:

None of the CRs here take into account templates added to the applicable creatures.

Summon Monster I: CR 0-CR1/2 creatures
2: CR 1/2-CR 1 creatures
3: CR 2 creatures
4: CR 3 creatures, with a few lower but with spells
5: CR 3-CR 5
6: CR 5 -CR 7, with the Unicorn at CR 3 and the ability to heal
7: CR 7 -CR 9, with a few lower
8: CR up to 10, with a bunch below 7
9: CR up to 13 (with one CR 14), with Xill at 6 on the low end

All said, these CRs are woefully low, especially when fighting other monsters. The only thing I can find worth using are the big dire animals, and a few stuff with good utility spells (none have good offensive spells). Most of the non combat utility goes out the window due to the low duration.

With some simple brainstorming, here's some ideas to fix the summons:
A. Extend the duration to 1 minute per level.
B. Give a d3 of summoned monsters at their level, and double it for each step lower on the list.
C. Allow a caster to use a higher list, but decrease the duration to 1 round/level.
D. Allow the caster to use a list two higher, but make the duration into concentration.
E. Something else?

What do you guys think?

-nameless

 

[Crothian]

I like extending the duration to a minute. You can also make the casting time standard. It is a full round for these, right?

 

[hong]

I think extending the duration to 1 minute + 1 round/level should be enough. That allows some decent noncombat utility at low levels.

 

[Limper]

Why not just make a Summoners Lock feat or spell?

Summonings are pretty beefy if you build properly. So I don't see any need to GIVE potency to the spells.

Summons Lock:

Pre: Augment Summons and 5 ranks Know Arc and Know Planes

Duration for an MS spell is increased to one hour
but at a price 1 Temp Con dam per lvl of the spell.

 

[Crothian]

there are feats that increase the power of everything you summon. One is in MaoF. THat might help out any Summoner out there.

 

[Limper]

Book Of Eldritch Might has some as well.

 

[nameless]

I've seen the summon enhancers, and to be honest, they aren't that great. 5-10 extra hp and +1 to hit and damage is nice, but doesn't really make a big difference. My goal is to turn summoning monsters into a good primary offense, rather than being a distraction while you throw fireballs and enervations to do the reral damage. The full round is already incredibly prohibitive, due to how easy it is to disrupt a fill-round spell. I just want that risk to pay off sometimes.

I had some other ideas though. Feats that give buffs to your summoned monsters automatically. One will maximize its hp. Maybe one will cast a spell you have memorized on it as a free action. Maybe one will give it some feat. I'm gonna keep brainstorming.

-nameless

 

[Shirt Guy John]

Summoning Stuff

I had a thread on the House Rules back a while back concerning summoning. Here it is, if you're interested. I think Augmented Summoning and the Eldricht summoning feat should make a summoner kick some major a$$ though.
Summoning

I don't know about underbalanced though. I think of them as the middle ground: sure they don't make things explode instantly, and they don't deal the 10d6 instant damage of a fireball, but they hang around and beat things up, and smash stuff, and cast spells(not many, but each one they cast is one you don't have to).

Summon Monster may not be the best group of spells in the core rulebooks, but they are not underbalanced. Underbalanced depends on what spells you are comparing them to, too.

However, if someone does have an expanded Summon Monster I-IX list, I'd be very happy to see it

 

[Vaxalon]

Summoning is at its most powerful when the summoner is invisible or otherwise heavily protected, but only as long as he doesn't attack.

An invisible summoner in the back of the party, summoning critters into positions to allow flanking and the like can be very effective.

I have no doubt that they spent a good deal of time balancing those spells. I suspect that what seems to be underpowered casting is simply insufficiently innovative thinking.

 

[Limper]

Now that its been mentioned I'll back SGJ thread it did contain some wonderfully crunchy stuff.