Rebuilding the Monk -- Mystic class posted!

CRGreathouse

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I've decided that I want to rebuild the monk for my campaign. Too many of my players have problems with the class, and likewise I see the same sorts of problems. My players' main complaint is that the class lacks versatility, even in its 3.5 incarnation.

Now I'm searching for ideas on how best ot go about this redesign. My goals are as follows:
  • Many or most of the monk class abilities should become feats.
  • The new monk class ("mystic") should grant bonus feats from a large list.
  • A fighter should be able to qualify for most or all of the martial feats (those relating to unarmed combat).
  • Such a fighter should rival or exceed the monk in combat ability, but lack its mystic features.
  • The new monk should emphasize simple, regular design over slavish mimicry of the old monk class. I want the class table to look more like the fighter's than the druid's, at least as far as possible.

One of the ideas I had was to give the class a 'virtual' increase in base attack every fourth level (1, 5, 9, 13, 17) for the purpose of qualifying for feats. I want the fighters to be on a par with the mystic in unarmed combat (should both choose to follow that path), not to eclipse them.

Some aspects of the design should be simple: flurry of blows breaks down nicely into feats: -2/-2, -1/-1, etc. Some oddball abilities are harder: slow fall and so forth. I was thinking of adding a table of special abilities like those of the rogue or loremaster for these things.

Any thoughts on this process in general, ideas to help me through it, or critiques on my ideas thus far?
 
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Why do you need a Mystic?

The differences between a Fighter and a "stripped Monk" (no "special" abilities) are:

1/ Skill points (adv: Monk)
2/ Weapon & Armor Prof. (adv: Ftr)
3/ Hit Points (adv: Ftr)
4/ Saves (adv: Monk)

Would it be possible to use variant Fighter configurations to model the differences?

-- N
 

Nifft said:
Why do you need a Mystic?

The differences between a Fighter and a "stripped Monk" (no "special" abilities) are:

1/ Skill points (adv: Monk)
2/ Weapon & Armor Prof. (adv: Ftr)
3/ Hit Points (adv: Ftr)
4/ Saves (adv: Monk)

Would it be possible to use variant Fighter configurations to model the differences?

First of all, strictly speaking, I don't: a fighter would work. In fact, if this is done properly, a fighter should be able to come fairly close to the monk, if the proper feats are taken. This doesn't end the problem, though; I still need to decide how to convert the special abilities into feats, especially the unarmed damage.

Second, I don't really like the idea of supernatural abilities as feats. (There are some exceptions and ways around this, but this holds most of the time.) I don't really want to convert these special magical abilities of the monk into feats; I'd prefer to leave them in the class. This is the reason I chose the term "mystic" instead of "monk".
 

If by unarmed damage you mean the dice going up, just use Weapon Specialization and have some extra tiers of it. It won't be dice, but it will average out well.

You could reduce the combat power of the 'new' monk class, making a Ftr/Mst (or whatever you use to abbr. it :)) good for doing a 'standard' fighting monk.

You may also want to just boost the power of any abilities a normal (supernatually inclined) fighting monk might have, without as much actual combat stuff. Another option for this would be to give many of the abilities more defensive aspects, but not make them useless for offense. The regular Monk's Stunning Fist would be a good example of an attack that is reasonably well suited to a defensive or assassin-like class (or at least a class not designed to match a well-equipped fighter).
 

My susggestion is to use the Fighter as a base and just allow him to take Psionic feats (as listed in the SRD) use HP loss to cover the PP cost

Human Fighter 3
BAb+3 Fort+3 Reflex+1 Will+1
Feats Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Blows, Speed of Thought, Psionic Fist, Still Mind*

(Still Mind taken as a feat, trade-off for Heavy Armour feat)
 

I'm totally with you on wanting to re-do the monk to make it more interesting and not so prone to the deathing.

I've considered giving the monks d10 hit dice and allowing them to wear light armor. The light armor only really helps at low levels, since by the 5+ levels characters can usually afford bracers of armor and what not.

I've also thought about making the monk ability list much more flexible and letting characters customize their monks by giving them a list of feats to select from. There are some general all purpose monk feats that any monk would want, as well as different groupings of feats that are my lame attempt at fighting styles. The fighting styles start off mundane, but become more "magic oriented" as the higher level feats are selected. THis works pretty well, although none of my players have actually played a monk yet. The monk NPC's are way cool though.
 

Cerbie said:
If by unarmed damage you mean the dice going up, just use Weapon Specialization and have some extra tiers of it. It won't be dice, but it will average out well.

You could reduce the combat power of the 'new' monk class, making a Ftr/Mst (or whatever you use to abbr. it :)) good for doing a 'standard' fighting monk.

You may also want to just boost the power of any abilities a normal (supernatually inclined) fighting monk might have, without as much actual combat stuff. Another option for this would be to give many of the abilities more defensive aspects, but not make them useless for offense. The regular Monk's Stunning Fist would be a good example of an attack that is reasonably well suited to a defensive or assassin-like class (or at least a class not designed to match a well-equipped fighter).

A better way to go about this would be to allow characters with improved unarmed fighting (or whatever it's called) to take the improved natural weapon feat that's in the Monster Manual. That increases the damage dice for a selected natural weapon.
 

I wonder if it would be best to do the Monk as a Psychic Warrior variant. 3/4 BAB, psionic powers that are already kinda Wuxia-oriented, and lots of play-testing already done.

Monk-ish PsiWar Variant:
- Lose Martial weapon proficency
+ Gain Improved Unarmed Strike
- Lose all Armor & Shield proficency
+ Gain Wis bonus to AC
- Lose Claw powers
+ Gain Monk-like powers, such as Psi Flurry (1st level, 1 pp, Swift action, +1 attack when making a full unarmed attack) and Psi Stun (1st level, 1 pp, Swift action, attack this round Stuns like Stunning Fist).

-- N
 

I'd really like to stay away from psionics here, even though I have the XPH and the latest copy of the Psionics SRD (as well as a backup of the older one).

helium3, the Improved Natural Attack feat can only be taken once (per attack), so it won't help much as written -- it'll increase damage to 1d4 for Medium creatures. If we let it stack with itself it'll be too powerful at the end (though still very weak at the beginning): 1d3 -> 1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 2d6 -> 3d6 -> 4d6 -> 6d6 -> 8d6 -> 12d6 -> 16d6 -> 24d6.... The first few are worth significantly less than WS and are adding to an already-suboptimal weapon; the later ones would be too strong.

I was thinking of something like:
Improved Unarmed Strike: deal 1d4 damage, don't provoke AoO
Lethal Strike: deal 1d6 damage, choose freely between lethal and nonlethal damage
Flurry of Blows: deal 1d8 damage, flurry -2/-2
Improved Flurry of Blows: deal 1d10 damage, flurry -1/-1
Greater Flurry of Blows: deal 2d6 daamge, flurry -0/-0
Supreme Flurry of Blows: deal 2d8 damage, flurry -0/-0/-0

Obviously I'd need to scale damage by size and write up good prerequisites, but what do you think of the general idea? 6 feats is expensive, but the class will give bonus feats or abilities so that shouldn't be too much of a concern.
 

OK, I typed up a quick version of the mystic as I was imagining. I'm assuming the existance of feats similar to those I posted above. (Posting class tables on the forums is hard; I've attached a 2-page PDF of the same at the end of the post for those who prefer that format.)

MYSTIC
Alignment: Any nonchaotic.
Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The mystic’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Jump (Str), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Mystic
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Mystic ability or bonus feat, paths
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Mystic ability, slow fall 10 ft
3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Mystic ability or bonus feat
4th +3 +1 +1 +4 Mystic ability, still mind
5th +3 +1 +1 +4 Mystic ability or bonus feat
6th +4 +2 +2 +5 Mystic ability, slow fall 20 ft
7th +5 +2 +2 +5 Mystic ability or bonus feat
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 Mystic ability, purity of body
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 Mystic ability or bonus feat
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Mystic ability, slow fall 30 ft
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Mystic ability or bonus feat
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Mystic ability, diamond body
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Mystic ability or bonus feat
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 Mystic ability, slow fall 40 ft
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Mystic ability or bonus feat
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Mystic ability, timeless body
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Mystic ability or bonus feat
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Mystic ability, slow fall 50 ft
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Mystic ability or bonus feat
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Mystic ability, perfect self


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the monk.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mystics are proficient with club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling. They are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Path: Mystics chooses two paths from the following list:
Acrobat: The following skills are added to the Mystic’s class list: Balance (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Move Silently (Dex), and Tumble (Dex). Her base Reflex save improves to match her base Will save.
Empath: The following skill is added to the Mystic’s class list: Sense Motive (Wis). She may gain an animal companion as a ranger of her level (minimum 1) or a familiar as a wizard of her level.
Killer: The following skills are added to the Mystic’s class list: Bluff (Cha), Disguise (Cha). She may choose to gain +1d6 sneak attack instead of a mystic ability on even levels.
Lorekeeper: The mystic gains bardic knowledge.
Savant: The mystic may choose powers as though her Wisdom was 8 higher than it actually is, or as if it were 20, whichever is better.
Scholar: The following skills are added to the Mystic’s class list: Knowledge (all) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), and any two.
Warrior: The Mystic can choose feats as though her base attack from this class was the same as a fighter’s. Her base Fortitude save improves to match her base Will save.
Mystic Power: At 1st level and every two levels higher than 1st (3rd, 5th, 7th,…), the mystic chooses one power from the table below. Her level plus Wisdom modifier determines the total number of powers she can choose. She can’t choose the same power twice unless otherwise noted.
Mystic Powers
Lvl+Wis Power
1 or less Additional path*
2 Preternatural sense
3 Magical talent (1st)
4 Evasion
5 Fast movement*
6 Magical talent (2nd)
7 Magical ki strike
8 Wholeness of body
9 Magical talent (3rd)
10 Healing talent
11 Resistance
12 Magical talent (4th)
13 Improved evasion
14 Lawful ki strike
15 Magical talent (5th)
16 Abundant step
17 Diamond soul
18 Magical talent (6th)
19 Quivering palm
20 Adamant ki strike
21 Magical talent (7th)
22 Tongue of the sun and moon
23 Prowess
24 Magical talent (8th)
25 Empty body
26 Speak with stones
27 Magical talent (9th)
* May be taken more than once.
Bonus Feat: Every odd level, a mystic may choose a bonus fighter feat instead of a mystic power.
Preternatural Sense (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the mystic adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, the mystic gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level and every five mystic levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the mystic is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.
Magical Talent: A mystic prepare and cast one spell of the specified level from the cleric list. A mystic must all the previous magical talents and twice the Hit Dice of the spell level to select this power. When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her magical talent.
Evasion (Ex): If the mystic makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the mystic is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless mystic does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Fast Movement (Ex/Su): Each time the mystic takes this ability, she gains a +10 ft enhancement bonus to her speed. These stack with each other (but not with other enhancement bonuses). When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her fast movement. These increases are natural until the mystic’s base speed is doubled, and supernatural thereafter.
Magical Ki Strike (Su): A mystic’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction.
Wholeness of Body (Su): A mystic can heal her own wounds. She can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice her current mystic level each day, and she can spread this healing out among several uses.
Healing Talent (Su): A mystic must select wholeness of body before this power. She can heal others (but not herself) a number of hit points of damage equal to twice her current mystic level each day, and she can spread this healing out among several uses.
Resistance (Ex): The mystic gains resistance 2 against acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic.
Improved Evasion (Ex): A mystic henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed Reflex save for half damage (and no damage on a successful save). A helpless mystic does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Lawful Ki Strike (Su): A mystic’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. A mystic must be lawful to choose this power and loses this power if she ceases to be lawful.
Abundant Step (Su): A mystic can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, once per day. Her caster level for this effect is one-half her mystic level (rounded down).
Diamond Soul (Ex): A mystic gains spell resistance equal to her current mystic level + 10. In order to affect the mystic with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the mystic’s spell resistance.
Quivering Palm (Su): A mystic can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the mystic so desires. She can use this quivering palm attack once a week, and she must announce her intent before making her attack roll. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the mystic strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter the mystic can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to her mystic level. To make such an attempt, the mystic merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the mystic’s level + the mystic’s Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time. A mystic must have the magical ki strike ability and the Fists of Iron feat to choose this power.
Adamant Ki Strike (Su): A mystic’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. A mystic must have the magical ki strike ability to choose this power.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex): A mystic can speak with any living creature.
Prowess (Ex): The mystic gains a +1 bonus on all attack rolls.
Empty Body (Su): A mystic gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 round per mystic level per day, as though using the spell etherealness. She may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of rounds spent in an ethereal state does not exceed her mystic level.
Speak with Stones (Ex): The mystic gains 60 foot tremorsense. She must have tongue of the sun and moon before selecting this ability.
Slow Fall (Ex): At 2nd level or higher, a mystic within arm’s reach of a wall can use it to slow her descent. When first using this ability, she takes damage as if the fall were 10 feet shorter than it actually is. The mystic’s ability to slow her fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves by 10 feet every fourth level.
Still Mind (Ex): A mystic of 4th level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment.
Purity of Body (Ex): At 8th level, a mystic gains immunity to all diseases except for supernatural and magical diseases.
Diamond Body (Su): At 12th level, a mystic gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.
Timeless Body (Ex): Upon attaining 16th level, a mystic no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the mystic still dies of old age when her time is up.
Perfect Self: At 20th level, a mystic becomes a magical creature. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the mystic’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the mystic gains damage reduction 10/magic, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonmagical weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, the mystic can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type.
Bonus Feats: The epic mystic gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic mystic bonus feats) every three levels higher than 20th. She may choose a mystic power instead of a bonus feat, if desired.
Epic Mystic Bonus Feat List: Armor Skin, Blinding Speed, Damage Reduction, Energy Resistance, Epic Ki Strike, Epic Prowess, Epic Speed, Epic Toughness, Exceptional Deflection, Fast Healing, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Spell Resistance, Improved Stunning Fist, Infinite Deflection, Keen Strike, Legendary Climber, Legendary Wrestler, Reflect Arrows, Righteous Strike, Self-Concealment, Shattering Strike, Vorpal Strike.

Ex-Mystics
A mystic who becomes chaotic cannot gain new levels as a mystic but retains all mystic abilities (except lawful ki strike).
Like a member of any other class, a mystic may be a multiclass character, but multiclass mystics face a special restriction. A mystic who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her mystic level, though she retains all her mystic abilities.
 

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