Red Hand of Doom - need help modifying slightly

[Peni Griffin]

But I thought I'd done all that already. And one of the points of my running modules is supposed to be that a lot of the scut work is already done by people who can look at a stat block and see how it'll translate into the game without actually starting play, which is the point at which the weaknesses leap out at me.

I was misremembering how much work I'd done on Skather already - I had remade him entirely as a durzagon assassin, so if he doesn't work now it's my own fault. The poison beard is weird, but my players will buy it when I tell them the alternative was a ninja with a breath weapon. I've turned all the blackspawn raiders into Durzagon. And I also already rewrote General Kharn, but he wound up being CR 14 - 4 CRs higher than the original and 1 CR level higher than the BBEG in the book , plus he has a mount because one of the splatbooks I'm allowing is Noble Steeds and the villains need to benefit from it, too.

Most of the roles in the book are fine; but it's turned out that I can't trust the authors of the book to write a character that adequately fills the role. I suppose it might be simpler to take the roles and write a new character of the same name for all of them, and trust my game mechanics to help me wing solutions to problems that arise from rank-and-file enemies during play. I don't feel comfortable sitting down to run a game unless I'm overprepared, alas.

I guess I was hoping there was some kind of 3.0-3.5 crib sheet out there that could help me reverse engineer what's provided. It wasn't very likely, and I didn't expect it.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Well, I suppose I am not sure what to suggest. You seem to have everything well in hand. I am not used to running Modules myself, but decided to make use of them this time around so that I could allow myself to run a campaign without having to eat up all my free time on the game.

I think that the one thing that Modules do for a DM is provide a sane pacing of encounters. As a DM, I am very good at creating tactically challenging encounters. Combat mechanics, with the exception of spells, I am very good at. And the spells is mostly an issue of familiarity. But when I throw together a fight, I tend to push the players a bit to hard.

Adventures let me run fights without nearly murdering my players every single time out.

It sounds like you use adventures to avoid having to manually stat out all the opponents. Given that your dealing with the 3.0 / 3.5 discrepancies on top of a simple desire to just use monsters that fit your campaign situation.

I think you have things better in hand than you realize. Not every NPC can be perfectly tuned, optimzied, and balanced to the role you need them to fill in your campaign world. Pick your battles, and do not put more work into an NPC than you need to.

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[Peni Griffin]

Maybe. I have to be overprepared in order to have the serenity to deal with whatever the players pull out of thin air on game day, and the modules were supposed to address that; but module NPCs tend to be so static and the writers of modules are all prepared for people with alien play styles from my group. I got RHOD to begin with because the backstory I came up with for the second module I ran, Forge of Fury, involved a dwarf city being overrun by humannoids. The escaping dwarfs overwhelmed the resources of neighboring Blasingdell, and the PCs were sent to abandoned Khundrukar to clear it for emergency habitation. Naturally, once they'd done that, they wanted to take part in the big counteroffensive to retake the dwarfen city, and we were hoping I could cannibalize the module for that purpose. It turned out I couldn't, but having got the module it seemed a pity not to use it.

I've been fiddling with this thing for months. It's not to blame for stuff like my trying to use it in 3.0 or needing to change the backstory and BBEG to fit, but I keep finding basic problems that should apply in any situation, and nobody else seems to notice these at all. All I ever see are rave reviews. As you're reading through it, consider these factors:

A river is superior to a highway. Boat travel is cheaper and faster than wagon and pack animal travel. Yet the Elsir is treated as a barrier, except that the PCs are offered the option of taking a boat to Rhest. This is partly a mechanical flaw in D&D. I ignore the rates of travel for boats in the PHB because they reflect no reality with which I am familiar, and give rivers downstream speeds; upstream travel occurs at a fraction of this - the faster downstream, the slower upstream. Thus, the Vale has two trade routes - the Elsir and the Dawn Way - both of which the Horde must cut off in order to be effective. I put a portage downstream from Drellin's Ferry at the place where two trails are shown crossing, and had a team of Hordelings take the trading post there on the day after the PCs came through. Large scale Good Guy overland movement will always be superior to Horde movement (but see below), because the Good Guys are experienced river rats and the Horde has no boatmen.

The Horde has numerous flyers at its disposal, yet the module does not discuss their use as couriers, scouts, or transport. I had one of my game mechanics help me figure it up, and a wyvern can carrry 993 pounds before losing maneuverability! Put a mindbender on one, and you've got yourself a nazgul with freight capacity, even if you give him a goblin chauffeur! Yes, they're poor flyers, but the Elsirans have nothing to compare, just a few giant owls if they make the alliance with the swamp elves.

My PCs are actively trying to recruit good and neutral-aligned fliers of their own - giant eagles, pegasi, anything like that. (What they really want is an androsphinx.) And why shouldn't they find some? They've got plenty of mountains to look for them in. It's true that mine only have a moment of liesure to do that because I eliminated CH. 2 - but why don't the Elsirans themselves think of it? Because the Horde, as written, doesn't make proper use of its air superiority and the pressure isn't on them to do so, that's why.

The southern and eastern parts of the map are neglected except for the single instance of hiring dwarfen mercenaries to assist in the defense of Brindol. Dwarfs aren't going to be thrilled about having hobgoblins move in next door, regardless of their relationship to their existing neighbors. This is not touched on.

Encounters with military units don't take into account factors like guard shifts and chain of command. The Mercenary Gold encounter, for instance, consists of two ettins and five goblin warriors. Five goblins cannot control two ettins for ten minutes, much less 24 hours a day in enemy territory, and ettins are neither smart enough to be given positions of authority nor lawful enough to be trusted to obey just anyone who happens to outrank them. At SKull Gorge Bridge, the dragon Ozyrrandion is the main line of defense, and a good one, too - but I don't remember anything in the MM about dragons not needing to sleep. And shouldn't he be able to communicate with Koth and Kharn quickly? He has no backup in the module to take his position while he sleeps, eats, or hunts, no other fliers as couriers, and no stated official rank in the army.

Vraath Keep has supposedly been abandoned for 200 years in an area similar to Louisiana. It should be an undistinguishable mound of kudzu. Oh, and there's no well in evidence! The vault is well hidden, but not well-hidden enough to withstand 200 years of curious bypassers, especially one so close to a major highway. The Dawn Way, on the other hand, has deteriorated much too rapidly given the short time the hobgoblins have been harrassing it. And so on. I shortened the time line to 15 years, spruced up the road, and created a political hassle - the Vraaths used to collect toll and maintain the road, and since its fall this has devolved upon Drellin's Ferry, but the hobgoblins chased out the tolltakers and annual maintenance hasn't been done.

And now I've got a spy with no Gather Information check, sheesh...

No module is perfect, but it seems like every time I turn around I find something I overlooked on the first, second, third, fourth, and fifth read-throughs that makes no sense, and just when I think I've got it all covered it hits me with something else or the players ask an obvious question that I have to invent an answer for on the fly. I suppose it's the length of the module plus the way everyone raves about it plus the strictly personal tweaks that are piling up to make me crazy and it's not really as bad as I feel like it is. I'd better go do housework so I can spend the afternoon figuring out how Kharn is reacting to events in the game so far.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Ahh, I get a better picture of whats bothering you. Your seeing what you consider to be the following.

1) Tactical discrepencies on the part of the goblin armies and humans.
2) NPC's whos abilities do not make sense for their stated role
3) Insufficient contingencies in place to handle wildly unpredictible player actions.

You know the circumstances of your game much better than I do. I get the feeling that this thread may devolve into a "Your Running D&D wrong" kind of thing, which of course will have the Moderators showing up. I prefer to avoid that.

However, I really do get the sense that your killing yourself over minutae. I really dont think that the logistics of refugee movement or the inadequate tactical utilization of large flying monsters should really be that big an issue. From what you have already said, you seem to have a firm grasp on the NPC's and the way you want things to play out.

What I would like to do within this thread, is provide myself with a means of getting a better idea of the sorts of things I may want to tweak. Things like alternate events that can be dropped / swapped in. Different class combinations for villians to better suit the adventure without severely breaking or altering the adventure.

A good example is that Ninja NPC with the breath weapon. Yeah, that just does not fit well, since I dont intend to put the Ninja class in my game. But what I can do is replace that character with a Kapak Assasin with levels of Rogue and / or Assasin, and use feats from the Dragonlance campaign setting to further improve him (such as Draconian Breath Weapon.

I also expect to heavily modify the final villian, since Half Dragons dont quite fit what I intend for Dragons in my campaign.

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[Peni Griffin]

You're probably right and I'm doing most of this to myself. Plus I'm griping now 'cause I have the chance. When I'm having trouble with a book I can talk it out with my husband or a writing friend, but everybody we know who games at all is playing under me, so I can't very well vent to my friends till after the fact. It's the last time I use such an ambitious module!

So I'm done now and if I can be any help to you or anybody else, I'll try. As I said - I'm strong on plot and character and awful at game mechanics, so if you find yourself faced by a plot problem, I'm in, but my class/race suggestions will be vague at best.

If you don't want a portal in the last chapter, is there some sort of ginormous spell they might want to cast in pursuit of that special goblin goal, something transformative? Like, I dunno, Mass Alignment Change, 100 Mile Radius?

 

[Lord Zardoz]

My basic concept for what is inside the portal that my keystone objects would open is something that has the capability of making all goblinoid creatures more powerful. Essentially, once its opened, all goblins would have the Anachic template applied to them. The individual keystones that open this portal are treated like holy relics by the goblins, even though the goblins themselves no longer quite remember what it will do.

The kind of plot ideas I could use are basically answers to these questions.

1) The nation that this adventure is set in is currently in the midst of a civil war. So far, all of the elements of that civil ware are backgrounded. The less savory side of that civil war (Led by Prince Oden) is on the defensive, and I have foreshadowed that there are rumors of new allies in place. How can I effectively work in the civil war aspect to this adventure without overly complicating the established plot of the adventure? What sort of in game events does this suggest?

-- For the early / preliminary part of this, the Draconians are going to be propping up / assisting the evil side in this civil war. Prince Oden is Evil, but not stupid enough to choose to work with Goblins. He has no idea what he is aligning himself with. And while a selfish bastard, he does not want to have his nation torched by goblins either.

2) Aside from trying to gate in Takhisis, what purpose could the Fane of Tiamat serve, in terms of advancing / promoting the war effort?

-- My best possible use for the Fane of Tiamat would be to allow the Draconian forces to have the loyalty of the goblin forces. Draconians are going to make their first appearance in my game world either just before or during my adventure. However, the goblins are mortal aspects of Chaos with no souls. Gods get no benefit from having them as worshipers.

2a) While were at it, given that I consider Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Bugbears to be one rache, how do I explain that Hobgoblins are Lawful Evil when they are mortal aspects of Chaos with no souls?

-- I might work in the Rod of 7 parts to answer 2a.

3) If I decide to replace the Elves with an Orc tribe, what manner of assistance could they plausibly provide that would be on par with what the Elves could provide (ie: Flying mounts or other movement aids).

-- Unlike Goblins, Orcs do have souls. They are still generally evil, and while they will work with goblins from time to time, they are also just as likely to enjoy killing goblins. They view the Goblin horde as a threat because they were not invited to the party. I just figure that a non hostile Orc tribe is going to be more fun than an Elf tribe.

4) What would Hiddukel want the players to do that would work against Takhisis, while furthering his own ends, and that would be easy to convince an average group of D&D players to do?

-- I came up with the idea that if I ever pulled a TPK on my players, that Hiddukel would make them an offer which could restore them to life. This allowed me to reverse a TPK within the story, and provided me with a plot hook, the players owe a very evil god a big favour. Hiddukel is a god of Lies, Betrayal, and Greed. What I want is something that the players are not too likely to balk at doing, but something that will later come back to haunt them.

That should about do it for plot specific problems.

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[Peni Griffin]

2A is easy on a philosophical level. Law is a temporary emergent property of chaos. The hobgoblins are lawful right now, but it isn't an essential part of their makeup and when it stops being useful they'll merge back into more chaotic behavior. The ability of lawful creatures to twist the letter of the law against the spirit is subversive of law, if you think about it; and chaotic people with strong goals also know how to use the appearance of lawfulness in a lawful society in order to get what they want.

Remember that a certain amount of order is necessary for bodies to function at all on the prime material plane. Any embodied race represents a concession to order. Possibly the different subraces of chaos creatures are different manifestations of chaos desires occupying different positions on the alignment grid as well as displaying different exterior forms according to their purpose.

The easiest way to use the adventure within a Civil War plot is for the goblins to exploit the confusion of the war. If Elsir Vale is a military backwater, most of its resources, human and material, are being drained away. Their garrisons are low - maybe everybody used to have a peackeeping force like the Lions, but they've all been mustered, leaving the towns to make due with second-rate militia, and the Lions are the sole organized peacekeeping force, suddenly responsible for a vastly enlarged territory even though their numbers have been reduced. Such a place would be ripe for the picking.

You can read history for fun and inspiration. During the American Civil War, the western frontier was pushed back by the various tribes of horse Indians, who recognized that those pesky bluecoats were busy elsewhere and they could raid for horses, cattle, and new tribal members with impunity. The CSA, which had a supply problem, mostly wrote off their frontier, while the USA hit on the idea of paroling Confederate prisoners on the condition that they man Union garrisons against the tribes in the western territories, far from the North/South theaters. Similar responses to the threat are available to your factions.

If Elsir Vale isn't a backwater, then the two sides in the Civil War could assess which enemy they think they can beat without assistance (at least in that theater). Ally with that group until the larger enemy is defeated, then turn on the temporary ally before they have time to turn on you. This is the strategy Patton wanted to use in WWII - join with Stalin to beat Hitler, then keep right on going and take out Stalin. It is, of course, not a Lawful strategy, but "defeat Enemy A and keep up the alliance with Enemy B afterward" is traditionally a sucker's game for the weaker of the two allies and will only work for everybody if the two mutually distrustful allies are evenly matched. The only way to be sure how even the match is would be to duke it out - but that's what makes horse races and treaties.

If Prince Odon is sufficiently reckless and overconfident (and your idea that he "not have any idea what he's allying himself with" suggests that he might be, or that his intelligence services are not up to the challenge presented by these allies), he could even try to pull off a Munchausen's-by-proxy ploy on the grand scale - let the Horde invade, then come down in a blaze of glory, push them back, and be acclaimed a hero, converting Elsir Vale solidly to his cause.

Are the Draconians actually brand new to the world, coming from another plane or recently created by the gods, or are they new in the sense that the Spanish were new when they reached the Americas? Not sure how much difference it makes, but it might.

Gods may not gain direct benefit from the worship of soulless creatures, but that doesn't mean they can't be useful in other ways. If I hire a lawyer, he doesn't have to like me in order to win my case. If the goblins can do a task that Takhisis wants done, and Takhisis can provide something the goblins want, that's a basis for a pure business relationship. You could convert the religious personnel into Draconians or some other race that does worship Takhisis, there to help things along and watch out for the Goddess's interests in the field; or the goblins could pretend to worship Takhisis in order to hide their true motives from ensoulled allies who don't understand their true nature.

BTW, does "soulless" for these purposes just mean "lacking an immortal individuality" or are there wider implications, as when the Buffyverse identified souls as the source of free will, or when someone describes a criminal as "soulless" as shorthand for "lacking conscience and incapable of love?"

Giant Owls are neutral and suit the traditionally nocturnal orcs better than they do the traditionally diurnal elves, IMHO. Did you know that owls are objects of fear in many tribal traditions, notably the giant Cannibal Owl? Their silence and nocturnal habit give them lots of spook potential. I'd keep them. If it's a question of aesthetics, then a trek through the MMs looking for something with a similar CR that appeals to your more is your best recourse, unless you can identify the aesthetic quality you want.

That's what I get after sleeping on it. Hope some of it is relevant, or sparks a useful train of thought if not useful in itself.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

The Draconians are new in the sense that they did not exist until recently, much as in the Dragonlance novels.

By soulless, I mean that they do not possess whatever quality / essense qualifies as a soul in D&D. So Trap the Soul would not quite function on them. Your phrase "lacking an immortal individuality" actually fits quite well. Within my game, attempts to bond souls from other creatures to a goblin results in Fiendish goblins.

I suppose the owls could fit for the Orcs, but stylistically, they dont quite fit. I may go for giant Vultures though.

Prince Oden is arrogant and stupid enough to think that he is going to be in charge of the horde types. Once things go wrong, it is possible he could choose to hold what is left of his forces back, forcing the players to try to convince him to dummy up. It turns out that I managed to work aspects of that civil war into my game today, so things may work well with that (the players met him due to a wonderful set of hilarious circumstances).

Anyway, thanks for the ideas so far. If you come up with any ideas to cover number 4, I would appreciate it.

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[Peni Griffin]

If you decide to go for Giant Vultures, don't forget to stat out their (real-life) major attack. If a vulture feels threatened, it uses a projectilve vomit attack. Skunks are jealous of this. They have weak feet, but powerful beaks suitable for tearing through cowhide. They seldom have to use the beaks against opponents, though, because the vomiting will route almost anything.