Red Hand of Doom Suggestions wanted...

[Lord Zardoz]

Obligatory Spoiler warning:

Ok, after a much longer delay than I would have liked, I managed to run a bit more of the Red Hand Of Doom.

So first a summary.

The previous adventure ended with 2 Worg Riders, Koth, and the Manticore, and one Hobgoblin Veteran alive in Vraath Keep. The Minotaur, and 3 other veterans had died previously.

The PC's consisted of a Ftr 5, Clr 5, Sor 5, Rngr 3 / Ftr 2, and were accompanied by Jorr and his dogs (2 alive), and a Rog 5. The Rngr / Ftr was a new player, and the Rog 5 had been added to the party to fill out their numbers. The players started out inside the barracks, having already used alot of spells on the contents of the barracks (and expending a number of failed Hold Person spells at Koth).

Koth had gotten out into the courtyard, and the veteran had locked himself into the tower.

First, Koth tried to draw the players out so the Worg Riders and the Manticore could pin cushion them. Instead the players battered their way into the tower and went after the veteran. While this happened, the Manticore started banging on the roof to cave it in, succeeding on the 3rd attempt. Then Koth and the Manticore started laying into the players using spike volleys and ranged spells (mostly Acid arrow from a wand and scorching rays). Things got scary when Koth managed to blind the Rogue and the Sorcerer. The players were not effective at ranged combat. The Manticore had killed Jor.

The fight ended with the Manticore and 1 Worg rider dead. Worg rider #2 fled, as did Koth. The players did manage to get Koth's notes, but they did not leave any survivors to interrogate. After the fight, the players went back to Drellins Ferry instead of onward to the Gorge / Bridge. They are inclined to have the bridge dropped, and want to bring along some help to drop it. The townsfolk of Drellins Ferry are not inclined to let the players simply drop the bridge to hold off "a few hundred goblins". But some diplomacy and intimidation have yeilded the players some scrolls of stone shape to take down the bridge with IF there is evidence that the forces coming to them are going to be too much to take down.

Now, the players are entering day 6 of the adventure. Koth and the Worg rider have almost certaintly fled back to the Red Hand and managed to warn the main force.

I am pretty sure that if I add Koth to the bridge defenses, the players will be overwhelmed. Koth has proven to be devastating with the use of Blindness and direct damage spells. But since Koth did manage to escape, the players should suffer some consequences.

Other: There are also some forces harassing Drellins Ferry trying to draw away soldiers so that a deposed prince can seize control of the town. The prince in question is evil, but unaware that he is being manipulated by the Red Hand forces.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[KingCrab]

If Koth fled, he very well could be being tortured for his failings (much like they say happens to Saarvith if he escapes on the top of p.63). I like the idea of each of the bosses that escape destruction from the party reappearing in the battle of Brindol in act 4. It gives the party a second chance to kill anyone they knew that got away and adds to the drama of the big scene. You can have them fighting alongside Hravek at the end of act 4, replacing his giants. Or you could have them be distinct battles after the horde has broken through the walls but before the big guy.

In my game they killed Koth, but both Saarvith and Ulwai escaped.

They may not even add extra defenses to the bridge since they don't quite know the power of the players or what they will do next. As time goes on it will get personal, but it doesn't have to that early in the game.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Both suggestions are valid, but they cover more of the mid to long term consequences. I am more concerned with how Koths escape may affect Act 1.

I had two survivors of that fight. Koth, and a Goblin Worg rider. My assumptions for the moment are that there are a decent number of raiding parties in the area preying on soldiers and locals, and that the bulk of the heavy hitters are on the wrong side of the Gorge gathering at Cinder Hill.

Now, Koth can reasonably assume that his notes are lost. They have a pretty good idea that the players are heavier hitters than most of what is available in the area. But what actions is Koth likely to take under the current circumstances?

The primary goal is to protect the bridge and take Drellins Ferry. The secondary goal is to keep the movements of the Red Hand armies quiet for a bit longer. The power in the area have been in conflict with the Goblins for a while, but the scope of the problem is not yet apparent. Taking Drellins Ferry will cripple supplies of weapons from filtering into the area, and allow the Red Hand to gain a flanking position for their advance on Brindol.

Given that word of their plans may have gotten out, there are three things that Koth will want to make sure happens.

1) It does not matter if Drellins Ferry knows whats coming. Inconvenient, but managable. They must make sure word does not get out to the wider world.
2) The bridge should probably be re-enforced to make sure no one prevents it from being seized.
3) It would be a good thing if the PC's got dead.

Given factors unique to my game, I have a good idea of how to acheive element 1. Elements 2 and 3 are the tricky ones. From a cold, ruthless point of view, I know Koth could easily render the bridge into a heavily re-enforced position that the players cannot possibly breach. But from an entertainment perspective, that is not such a good idea. The players intend to approach the bridge with some re-enforcements from town, including the Guard Captain, so I do have some room to re-enforce that bridge.

So to further narrow down the kind of suggestions I am seeking?

The players will be approaching the bridge in a group consisting of a Ftr 6, Rnger 4 / Ftr 2, Cleric 6, Sor 6. They are re-enforced by the following NPCs: Ftr 5, Rogue 5, and lets say 10 single HD Warriors. I intend for them to get into at least 1 fight before they reach the bridge that may not account for the addition of the Ftr 5 + 10 War1.

I would like suggestions for the first fight that fit what Koth might send to hunt down and kill the PC's, assuming Koth is not present. The fight will happen in a wooded area, probably a swamp.

I would like suggestions for re-enforcements for the bridge fight that may or may not include Koth, that will avoid a probable TPK.

Since I am a very tactical DM, and I have had a tendency to put my players up against some difficult fights. The fortress was harsh, and ended with 2 characters blind, Jorr dead, and 2 PC's having dropped. I dont mind them having an easy time with the first fight, but I do not want a complete walk over either. Suggestions derived from the monster statblocks in the RHoD adventure would be great.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Lord Zardoz]

bumped.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Peni Griffin]

Impatient much?

The bridge needs reinforcing, anyway, unless 3.5 dragons can get along without sleep. I had three flying creatures guarding the bridge in rotation, with 2 chimerae on hand for the shifts considered less dangerous and to cover for Ozyrrandion when he acted as messenger between the Horde and Koth.

What Koth does now depends on who Koth is and what his goals are. Answer the following questions, and you'll know what he does.

Why is Koth a warlord?
On the face of it, a sorcerer with a low intelligence is an odd choice for such an important post, and it says in the module that he feels called on to prove himself. So what quality led him to be selected for this post and to whom does he need to prove himself? If he's a petty bureaucrat whose skill at working the system got him into this position, he behaves very differently at this juncture than if he's a shameless synchophant who rose on a tide of flattery, or a hapless schmoe who got lucky in the right place at the right time and was promoted in recognition of accomplishments he made by accident, or a ruthless opportunist who destroyed his predecessor in order to achieve this rank.

Second, What system is set up for communicating with HQ, and with whom can he communicate directly?
If Ozyrrandion is the sole source of communication with HQ, but Koth has a system for signaling the troops loose in the Witchwood, that's one set of tactics; if Azar Khul randomly does sendings to communicate with the guys in the field, that's another set.

Third, What's his relationship to the other members of the Horde? If he's friendly with Ozyrrandion and between the two of them (the youngest dragon, the newest Warlord) they're out to dazzle the establishment, then yeah, he's personally reinforcing the bridge. But what if Ozyrrandion's a dragon supremacist who regularly lords it over him? Then maybe Ozyrrandion doesn't even get the word and Koth determines to deal with this little problem his ownself with his own troops by ambushing the PCs or burning Drellin's Ferry. Or maybe Azarr Kul is a micromanager and control freak, and Koth doesn't dare do anything but ride that mount straight to Cinder Hill. At which point, he might be demoted and allowed to redeem himself by leading a party of assassins to take out the PCs, or turned over to the mindbenders for an attitude adjustment, or sent to reinforce the bridge just a little bit too late. I'm finding travel times to be a vital component of this adventure.

When running this bit, I assumed that only the troops at the bridge, those with flight capacity, and those available in the module to launch the punitive raid on Drellin's Ferry could get into position for any attacks at this time. You might also decide that now is a good time to send in Miha Serani, or even a disguised mindbender, already in the vale doing spying duty. Such a person could gain vital information about PC resources and capabilities, lead them into a trap, or distract them.

 

[green slime]

I read through the Red Hand of Doom during my vacation this year. One of the many things that struck me, was the surprising lack of defense on the bridge. For such an important part of their plan, which is actually in their possession, what reason do they have for not having more troops holding it?

 

[Peni Griffin]

The designers wanted a party of the advertised starting level to be able to take it.

My in-game rationalization was that the troops were still gathering at Cinder Hill and full deployment hadn't occurred yet. The Horde had been gradually cutting off the Vale's communication for months, picking off in- and outbound trade caravans as they came through (my PCs spy actually witnessed the distribution of loot and slaves from one such caravan when he overflew Cinder Hill), but actually seizing the bridge was a recent development. After all, if the word was "a dragon is sitting on Skull Gorge bridge" rather than "hobgoblins are raiding caravans and making it uneconomical to get through," you get a different kind of response.

And then, as I said, I beefed the encounter up, and my players took it anyway, but at least it wasn't a walk (as it would have been with the original - we aren't using the advertised levels). The defenses on Skull Gorge are just one of many things in the module that don't pass the idiot test, but that's generally true of modules. Had I but world enough and time, I'd never use them. I don't, so I use them and modify the heck out of them to suit player/GM tolerances.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Impatient? The thread found its way to the 2nd page with no responses. Wanting responses I bumped. So yeah, sure, somewhat impatient.

Anyway, I think the best answer for why a Low Int Sorcerer is a commander would be the Charisma score. Koth is a commander because he is able to get people to do as he says.

The reason the bridge is poorly defended is because he is, after all, a Low Int Sorcerer. Call it a tactical mis-step on his part. Koth was so determined that no one find the bridge that he had left the bridge somewhat undefended when he deployed his forces for Raiding.

I would say that Koth's role within the Red Hand is generally to 'get things done' rather than any significant planning. He does not pick the targets or set policy. He is just told to "Isolate Drellins Ferry and scout ahead for our attack. Keep the bridge secure". I picture him as a middle manager that struts like the CEO, who revels in his power, but is not really capable of original thought.

On that basis, I think that the following would happen:
1) Koth will return to Cinder Hill to dispatch re-enforcements to the bridge
2) Koth will arrange to have some heavy hitters go after the players.
3) Since the forces are waiting for Koth to return to Cinder Hill, I assume this is because he is to lead the actual assualt on Drellins Ferry

So, the question now becomes what does he send to the bridge, and what does he send after the players?

- The bridge already has a dragon, so I am thinking some additional fodder and support.
- Having met and very nearly defeated the players with what was on hand at Vraath Keep, a comparable force of heavy hitters should be hunting them down (a few wolf riders, plus <SOMETHING BEEFY>.

So, I suppose what I would like now are ideas for the Bridge Re-enforcements, and for the 'Seek and Destroy' Party.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[green slime]

My ideas for increasing the defence of the bridge was adding more archers in the towers, and lots more low level grunts.

Not enough to make things impossible, but enough so the party just doesn't steam on in and roll over the place with impunity. Enough so that when they scout the place out, they stop and think, and put together a cunning plan for a commando-like raid.

Basically, I'd favour dropping the dragon, but increasing the CR through mooks. I guess that kind of heresy isn't taken too kindly.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I read through the Red Hand of Doom during my vacation this year. One of the many things that struck me, was the surprising lack of defense on the bridge. For such an important part of their plan, which is actually in their possession, what reason do they have for not having more troops holding it?

Lack of defenses on the brigde? I guess I'm of the school of thought that believes that if a dragon is on the brigde, then you don't have to worry about that bridge.

The forces there are enough to take down anything that wonder by it. However, they did not expect any powerful adventuring groups to be at that bridge. The book also states that more Holgoblins are coming in every 8 hours.

Listen Lord Zardoz, the bridge battle is very tough. You could not modify it at all and it will still give your PCs a tough time. Believe me, I DMed it. Of course if you want to make the bridge defenses more believeable or tougher there are several things you can do. You could make that dragon large or simply add another squad or two of Holgoblins.