D&D 5E Reducing 5e XP after 10th level

[turnip_farmer]

My latest 5e campaign (set in Damara/Blodstone Lands, 1359 DR) is a multi-group sandbox game which started in August 2020. I use standard 5e XP with a lot of lower CR monsters, which gives a rather sedate advancement rate. Currently PCs are in the 3rd-6th range (I currently start new PCs at 3rd). In order to keep the progression rate about the same and allow for long term play, I'm planning to halve XP awards for PCs at 11th+ level. I was wondering if anyone else has done this and how did it work out?

It's worth noting that halving the XP will significantly slow advancement. Below is a table of the standard XP progression for 5e. The 'speed' number is just calculated by dividing the XP needed to advance to the next level by the XP budget for a medium encounter.

Level​	Speed​
1​	6,00​
2​	6,00​
3​	12,00​
4​	15,20​
5​	15,00​
6​	15,00​
7​	14,67​
8​	15,56​
9​	14,55​
10​	17,50​
11​	9,38​
12​	10,00​
13​	9,09​
14​	10,00​
15​	10,71​
16​	9,38​
17​	10,26​
18​	9,52​
19​	10,20​

Now, it's clear that, with the standard XP table, things go faster after that pause at 10th level, but if you just halve XP, things will really slow down after 10th level:

11​	18,75​
12​	20,00​
13​	18,18​
14​	20,00​
15​	21,43​
16​	18,75​
17​	20,51​
18​	19,05​
19​	20,41​

All the levels after 10th will take a bit longer than 10th level did. If that's what you want, then fine. But if you want advancement to proceed at the same rate as it does for the mid-levels; you want to hand out 75% of the XP, instead of half. This gives you a speed of about 15 each level.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Thanks, yes I've run a few campaigns to 15th or 20th and progression from 11th on always seemed very quick to me. Not just the reduced XP needed; the PCs increase in power a lot so they can earn XP a lot faster than before. I've had 2 campaigns go to 20th then keep running with Epic Boons, but for this one I'd rather have slower advancement and play for longer while probably never going to 20.

Half XP after 10th is in the campaign document, but this will be the first time I've used it.

I'm confused, why are you saying there's reduced XP needed for levels after 11? The only such case is 10-11-12, after which it goes right back to increasing or stable XP needed for the next level.

Here's the XP breakdown per level:

Level	Total XP	Delta
1	0	n/a
2	300	300
3	900	600
4	2700	1800
5	3500	800
6	14000	10500
7	23000	9000
8	34000	11000
9	48000	14000
10	64000	16000
11	85000	21000
12	100000	15000
13	120000	20000
14	140000	20000
15	165000	25000
16	195000	30000
17	225000	30000
18	265000	40000
19	305000	40000
20	355000	50000

Looks pretty steady and increasing after 11th (12th notwithstanding). Almost all of the non-linear stuff is in the early levels.

 

[Ancalagon]

I haven't used XPs in decades. Just tell them they level up after a number of games that suit the group's preference.

This is what I have been doing for a while. BUT I found that some of my players really like XP. What to do?

FAKE IT. Decide "I want the party to go up each X sessions" (say 5). Look at the XP gap between the current and next level. Divide by five. Say this number is 900 xp.

Here is the next part of the trick. Don't give 900 xp every session! Instea, modify it base on how productive the session was. A sedate session where not much is done except some shopping and light RP? Give 600 xp. A big boss fight? give 1200 xp. No need to calculate, just eyeball it.

 

[turnip_farmer]

I'm confused, why are you saying there's reduced XP needed for levels after 11? The only such case is 10-11-12, after which it goes right back to increasing or stable XP needed for the next level.

Look at my table above. As a function of the XP you're expected to receive from an encounter, the amount of XP needed to advance a level after 10th is only 2/3rds of what it was before 10th.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Look at my table above. As a function of the XP you're expected to receive from an encounter, the amount of XP needed to advance a level after 10th is only 2/3rds of what it was before 10th.

Yes, there's a disparity in the chart right at 10-11-12. I mean, I've said that quite a few times in the thread, and in that post. If you realign the XP needed so that 10 to 11th is the same as 9th to 10th (the pattern that usually holds), then it's 16k, 16k, 20k, 20k, 20k. You're taking the one outlier, that the devs specifically called out as intentional to hold 10th level a bit longer (although they took it form 11-12, weirdly), as if it's controlling. That's a weird spot to be in.

 

[turnip_farmer]

Yes, there's a disparity in the chart right at 10-11-12. I mean, I've said that quite a few times in the thread, and in that post. If you realign the XP needed so that 10 to 11th is the same as 9th to 10th (the pattern that usually holds), then it's 16k, 16k, 20k, 20k, 20k. You're taking the one outlier, that the devs specifically called out as intentional to hold 10th level a bit longer (although they took it form 11-12, weirdly), as if it's controlling. That's a weird spot to be in.

I think you're missing the point by looking at absolute numbers, and ignoring the recommended challenge per level. It's not just the fact that level 10 is an unusual outlier. It's the fact that the pre-10 and post-10 encounter arithmetic is different. To clarify:

5th to 6th takes 15 medium encounters.
6th to 7th takes 15 medium encounters.
7th to 8th takes 15 medium encounters.
(...)
11th to 12th takes 9 medium encounters.
12th to 13th takes 10 medium encounters.
13th to 14th takes 9 medium encounters.

This is a general rule. 4th to 10th level takes about 15 medium encounters. 11th to 20th level takes 9 or 10 medium encounters.

 

[S'mon]

Yeah, with standard XP the level-up time 11+ is 2/3 the time 5-10, whereas I'd prefer it to take longer. Doubling XP makes the rate 11+ 50% longer than 5-10 which seems about right for my purposes, though twice as long would be ok too I think. I want more of a 1e/2e feel.

 

[werecorpse]

My latest 5e campaign (set in Damara/Blodstone Lands, 1359 DR) is a multi-group sandbox game which started in August 2020. I use standard 5e XP with a lot of lower CR monsters, which gives a rather sedate advancement rate. Currently PCs are in the 3rd-6th range (I currently start new PCs at 3rd). In order to keep the progression rate about the same and allow for long term play, I'm planning to halve XP awards for PCs at 11th+ level. I was wondering if anyone else has done this and how did it work out?

I did this, it worked fine although at about 15/16 th level I considered going back to full exp as the campaign approached endgame