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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
reducing dominance of ranged: cantrips
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6992554" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Depends on how close you want the resemblance. I was just remarking the other day how much the characters of Rogue 1 resembled an RPG party, for instance. But, yes, because of a few D&D oddities - Vancian casting, the typecast Thief, and most of all, the vital but very genre-incongruous Cleric (and other magical healers) - even those genre stories that use an ensemble cast don't closely resemble the classic D&D party. They're doable (though probably not viable) in highly-customizable 3e, or readily 'skinned' into conformity in 4e, though, FWLTW.</p><p></p><p>I don't think it's such an attempt, and, if it's come close to it, it's overshot any reasonable mark. </p><p></p><p>D&D has, for most of its history, suffered from (among other things) the infamous LFQW problem. Fighters have robust base-line DPR that grows steadily with level, and nothing else. Casters have whimpy base-line DPR, punctuated with overwhelming one-shot spells that grow exponentially with level, and everything else. </p><p>5e's solution to this was to give casters a less whimpy, more steadily-growing baseline DPR, while reigning in the extreme power/scaling of spell slots. Maybe it's done the former a little too much and the latter not nearly enough, but I'll have to go with that being the target, because it remotely makes sense in terms of game design, and if all that was desired was to perpetuate the classic problems, there'd've been no need.</p><p></p><p>Caster ability varies some in genre, certainly, and doesn't often approach the D&D model of overwhelmingly powerful, easily/quickly cast spells with an arbitrary daily limit (let alone a memorization mechanic). Much more often, magic is a ritual affair not usable in combat, and casters virtually non-combatants. Less often the caster is also an able warrior, or has magic he can use freely in combat (often only one or two tricks, sometimes quite nasty). Of course, the more capable the caster, the more likely he's the villain...</p><p></p><p>On the contrary, I feel I'm addressing those concerns directly. At least, as best as I've been able to parse them. There may be a communication issue here, too.</p><p></p><p>I strongly disagree (and agree). How 'bout that - and I thought I was confused before. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6992554, member: 996"] Depends on how close you want the resemblance. I was just remarking the other day how much the characters of Rogue 1 resembled an RPG party, for instance. But, yes, because of a few D&D oddities - Vancian casting, the typecast Thief, and most of all, the vital but very genre-incongruous Cleric (and other magical healers) - even those genre stories that use an ensemble cast don't closely resemble the classic D&D party. They're doable (though probably not viable) in highly-customizable 3e, or readily 'skinned' into conformity in 4e, though, FWLTW. I don't think it's such an attempt, and, if it's come close to it, it's overshot any reasonable mark. D&D has, for most of its history, suffered from (among other things) the infamous LFQW problem. Fighters have robust base-line DPR that grows steadily with level, and nothing else. Casters have whimpy base-line DPR, punctuated with overwhelming one-shot spells that grow exponentially with level, and everything else. 5e's solution to this was to give casters a less whimpy, more steadily-growing baseline DPR, while reigning in the extreme power/scaling of spell slots. Maybe it's done the former a little too much and the latter not nearly enough, but I'll have to go with that being the target, because it remotely makes sense in terms of game design, and if all that was desired was to perpetuate the classic problems, there'd've been no need. Caster ability varies some in genre, certainly, and doesn't often approach the D&D model of overwhelmingly powerful, easily/quickly cast spells with an arbitrary daily limit (let alone a memorization mechanic). Much more often, magic is a ritual affair not usable in combat, and casters virtually non-combatants. Less often the caster is also an able warrior, or has magic he can use freely in combat (often only one or two tricks, sometimes quite nasty). Of course, the more capable the caster, the more likely he's the villain... On the contrary, I feel I'm addressing those concerns directly. At least, as best as I've been able to parse them. There may be a communication issue here, too. I strongly disagree (and agree). How 'bout that - and I thought I was confused before. ;) [/QUOTE]
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