D&D 5E (2024) Reevaluating 5.5 Classes?

[Seramus]

What percentage of combat vs exploration vs social are you expecting?

 

[Zardnaar]

What percentage of combat vs exploration vs social are you expecting?

No assumptions. I'll mention an upgrade to the score for the pillars.

Barbarian for example wont be rated that high. Its a high score in combat, peaks early but its a one trick pony for the most part. If you're campaign is combat heavy and damage matters its great. If not its a XYZ.

 

[FrogReaver]

Barbarian subclasses are fairly close to each other on power.

That probably depends more on how one defines 'fairly close'. I personally find quite a big spread in their key performance capabilities, especially depending on how one builds them.

. Problem is really the base class. One trick pony basically, when it peaks and its defenses or lack of.

I think you are mistaking trick for identity. Barbarians mostly have a single identity.

However, when it comes to tricks, they include high damage, the potential for insane survivability, and then due to their survivability they get to control enemies through positioning and weapon masteries for push or prone, all while also possessing a decent ranged backup attack.

If by one trick pony, you mean what they do with their action, then yea, they just attack. If you mean what kind of impact them being on the battlefield has, I think you'll find they offer many 'tricks'.

 

[Zardnaar]

That probably depends more on how one defines 'fairly close'. I personally find quite a big spread in their key performance capabilities, especially depending on how one builds them.

I think you are mistaking trick for identity. Barbarians mostly have a single identity.

However, when it comes to tricks, they include high damage, the potential for insane survivability, and then due to their survivability they get to control enemies through positioning and weapon masteries for push or prone while also possessing a decent ranged backup attack.

If by one trick pony, you mean what they do with their action, then yea, they just attack. If you mean what kind of impact them being on the battlefield has, I think you'll find they offer many 'tricks'.

Mostly variations of hit stuff hard in melee and do it very well.

At range there reduced to throwing weapons. Generally strength based.

High dex dual wielding fighter can pull out a bow and not suck with it. Shortbow shares vex with melee weapon even.

 

[FrogReaver]

Mostly variations of hit stuff hard in melee and do it very well.

And take lots of hits. Make lots of enemies want to stay beside them. Apply lots of pushes and topples due to their high rate of advantage.

At range there reduced to throwing weapons. Generally strength based.

Why's that a problem?

High dex dual wielding fighter can pull out a bow and not suck with it. Shortbow shares vex with melee weapon even.

A zealot or berserker will do as much if not more damage with javelins than a dual wielding fighter that pulls out a short bow. They'll still do more damage even at 80ft and way more at 120ft.

 

[Zardnaar]

And take lots of hits. Make lots of enemies want to stay beside them. Apply lots of pushes and topples due to their high rate of advantage.

Why's that a problem?

A zealot or berserker will do as much if not more damage with javelins than a dual wielding fighter that pulls out a short bow. They'll still do more damage even at 80ft and way more at 120ft.

Game changed. They get hit a lot and theres a lot of force and other types of damage at C55 and up. Damage doesnt scale as well either, weak defenses espicially wisdom saves.

Damage scales poorly as well with Zealots and Berzerkers being exceptions. They're also the best ones.

They peak lvl 3-5 abd downhill comparatively from there. They don't indomitable or extra feats at 6 and 14 to shore up their defenses. They lack paladin abilities.

Theyre terrifying in melee combat and thats about it.

 

[FrogReaver]

Game changed. They get hit a lot and theres a lot of force and other types of damage at C55 and up. Damage doesnt scale as well either, weak defenses espicially wisdom saves.

Damage scales poorly as well with Zealots and Berzerkers being exceptions. They're also the best ones.

They peak lvl 3-5 abd downhill comparatively from there. They don't indomitable or extra feats at 6 and 14 to shore up their defenses. They lack paladin abilities.

They both innately shore up their save defenses with their own level 6 subclass features.

Theyre terrifying in melee combat and thats about it.

Yes and Wizards are one trick ponies as well because they are only terrifying when casting spells. Or maybe the logical flaw there is obvious

 

[FrogReaver]

Anyways, @Zardnaar I do want to see your ratings. So I'll stop our little tangent and let you get to it. I can always disagree with them later

 

[Zardnaar]

Anyways, @Zardnaar I do want to see your ratings. So I'll stop our little tangent and let you get to it. I can always disagree with them later

Yeah im still thinking more about what value more.

Basically in 5.5 I value damage less than 5.0 and not getting hit, dice manipulation and initiative more.