Reflex Saves in Enclosed Spaces

[interwyrm]

The party is facing a dragon in an enclosed space. The dragon uses his breath weapon in such a way that the entire enclosed space is filled with fire. Do the characters still get a reflex save?

 

[AuraSeer]

Yes.
Succeeding in a Reflex save doesn't necessarily mean the character totally dodged the effect. All it means is that he managed to lessen its impact on him. Perhaps the character holds his breath, covers his eyes, and takes the brunt of the flames across his shield, to name just a few possible explanations. All the save really means is that "somehow" he protected himself from the worst of the effect.

 

[IronWolf]

Well put by AuraSeer. The reflex save is just reacting quickly enough to offer some form of protection against the brunt of the flames, not necessarily avoiding it completely. Any natural depression, boulder or a swing of a backpack into more of shielding position could have been done to help reduce the damage.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Exactly. Even if the area isn't enclosed, the rules don't even imply that the character moves out of the way- as that would require movement, which a character can't take. The character stays in the same 5' square, regardless of what happens, so movement isn't really necessary from square to square.

Another thing to realize is that, as with a Fireball spell, the entire area isn't filled with Fire. It's not like a giant solid wall of flame comes at them- there's simply a burst of flame, and for the most part, it fills the affected area- but as with any kind of an explosion or anything like that, there's holes and pockets here and there.

 

[HellHound]

Also, it helps if you don't think of an area effect FILLING the whole area. A blast of dragon breath has eddies and whorls of non-flame within it. A grenade doesn't project a perfect cloud of debris from the centre of the blast, but launches potentially deadly chunks in various directions. In either case, a Reflex save allows the character to find the less deadly area to be standing in.

 

[Crothian]

The DM can impose circumstance penalties to the save if he feels they are warranted though.

 

[IronWolf]

The DM can impose circumstance penalties to the save if he feels they are warranted though.

Always helping out the players!

 

[Infiniti2000]

Another thing to realize is that, as with a Fireball spell, the entire area isn't filled with Fire. It's not like a giant solid wall of flame comes at them- there's simply a burst of flame, and for the most part, it fills the affected area- but as with any kind of an explosion or anything like that, there's holes and pockets here and there.

That's not true. A fireball, like any spread effect, is explicitly not a burst, and it definitely fills the area, by rule. Reread the section on bursts and spreads.

 

[Len]

That's not true. A fireball, like any spread effect, is explicitly not a burst, and it definitely fills the area, by rule. Reread the section on bursts and spreads.

That section defines which five-foot squares are affected by the spell, but it does not say that the spell's effect is perfectly uniform inch-by-inch within that area. If you want to say that the reason you only suffered half damage is that you dodged the worst part of the blast, that is within the rules.

 

[Infiniti2000]

That section defines which five-foot squares are affected by the spell, but it does not say that the spell's effect is perfectly uniform inch-by-inch within that area.

Neither did I. It does clearly state that it fills the area though, using the same word that the other poster said it didn't do.

If you want to say that the reason you only suffered half damage is that you dodged the worst part of the blast, that is within the rules.

That's fine, too, but essentially a nonsequitur to my comments. A fireball is a spread, not a burst, an essential distinction per the rules. The point is, if you want to describe something, make sure you're careful about what words you choose. Don't say that the fireball bursts from a particular point because that has an important connotation other than what really happens.