Reflex Saving Throws

[pmlyon]

I have a question about reflex saving throws and spells. Sorry if this is in the rules somewhere, but I couldn't seem to find it. If someone succeeds on a reflex save against, for example, a fireball spell are they moved to a square outside the area spread of the fireball? If not, how exactly are they dodging the fireball?

Thanks!

Paul

 

[dcollins]

If someone succeeds on a reflex save against, for example, a fireball spell are they moved to a square outside the area spread of the fireball? If not, how exactly are they dodging the fireball?

No, a successful saving throw does not move the character (with perhaps one exception: see blade barrier). How the dodge occurs is purely flavor-text up to the DM. Perhaps they -- dodge behind a rock; get under a table or chair or door; cover themselves with their shield or an enemy body; duck under an airburst; roll with the blast; twist between the worst shrapnel within the blast; get miraculous fortune from their god; partially counter or detect a weak spot in the spell; take the blast on an invulnerable magic item; etc., etc., etc.

 

[Infiniti2000]

They are not moved outside the area effect of the fireball. How exactly they dodge it is up to you, i.e. however you decide to describe the flavor aspect. Perhaps you decide that the fireball has 'holes' in it and you happen to move into (or be in) one of those non-hotspots. Perhaps you cover up your vulnerable spots (this begs the question for earth elementals, though, because we all know rocks don't have vulnerable spots).

 

[pmlyon]

No, a successful saving throw does not move the character (with perhaps one exception: see blade barrier). How the dodge occurs is purely flavor-text up to the DM. Perhaps they -- dodge behind a rock; get under a table or chair or door; cover themselves with their shield or an enemy body; duck under an airburst; roll with the blast; twist between the worst shrapnel within the blast; get miraculous fortune from their god; partially counter or detect a weak spot in the spell; take the blast on an invulnerable magic item; etc., etc., etc.

Thanks for the great info! I'm DMing for the first time, and was wondering how I should handle this.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Nope, they don't move.

The trick is to change the way you envision the fireball spell. Instead of a "solid" sphere of flame, imagine that it is a swirling ball of flames. There are "dead" spaces inside it that are, at any given time, not on fire. Someone who makes their save has managed to spend most of their time in those dead spaces.

Someone with Evasion who makes their save spent all of the time in those dead spaces.

 

[Bront]

Thanks for the great info! I'm DMing for the first time, and was wondering how I should handle this.

Don't let players make Reflex saves. Means you don't have to.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Also, welcome to the DM scene!

 

[Pinotage]

Are there any penalties to reflex saves in scenarios where you can't more 'normally' such as when grappling, or prone? It doesn't look like there are, but if a grappling character can't use its Dex to AC against non-grappling opponents, does it loose the Dex to the reflex save as well?

Pinotage

 

[Kae'Yoss]

pmlyon, welcome to the boards!

Pinotage: There are sceatios where you don't get to make a reflex save, but prone or grappling aren't among them, nor do you get any penalty officially.

The rules do say that when you're unable to move away, you get no save. This means if you're in a tunnel or pipe that's not much larger than you, you cannot dodge the lignting bolt, and neither can a paralyzed victim escape my fireball.

 

[pmlyon]

pmlyon, welcome to the boards!

Pinotage: There are sceatios where you don't get to make a reflex save, but prone or grappling aren't among them, nor do you get any penalty officially.

The rules do say that when you're unable to move away, you get no save. This means if you're in a tunnel or pipe that's not much larger than you, you cannot dodge the lignting bolt, and neither can a paralyzed victim escape my fireball.

Where did you find this in the rules btw? I wasn't able to find anything about this anywhere. :-(