Homebrew Regarding converting O5E third party and homebrew classes to A5E

[SongOfSisyphus]

I'm trying to convert some O5E third-party classes for use with A5E, and it seems like somewhat of a daunting task. Are there any particular design principles I should bear in mind, other than "Martial characters should get access to manoeuvres, and maybe steal a few knacks, arcane secrets or elective studies from some classes, as appropriate?"

For reference, the list I am considering (along with some irrelevant and likely doomed attempts from me to try and bring in spell pools) is as follows:

 

[foxblade]

As I understand the design principles (and it looks like you have a good grasp on them), it's challenging because like wotc o5e classes, most o5e classes have a combat focus. In a5e, exploration is added via knacks (or their equivalent) and social skills are mixed in with combat skills as part of class features. A5e also offers choices (a good amount of the time) when class features are gained.

Just have to hit all 3 pillars, roughly equally. Add choice. Martials should get maneuvers: 3rd party A5e maneuvers (Purple Martin Games and Steampunkette's Paranormal Power), as well as Gate Pass Gazette, help with this quite a lot - more choices mean you are not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Roll Them Bones Gaming has also created the Witch and Scholar class in their two release products for a look at how some one else has tackled the issue.

This is all easier said than done - I am struggling with this myself.

 

[arms]

maybe, depending on the classes, you can instead transform them into archetypes?

 

[Pedantic]

It seems to me that the most significant A5E difference you'd want to chart out is the Knack system. I haven't done this yet, but modeling the number of available Knack choices and acquisition schedule for each of the existing A5E classes (and maybe doing a quick rating on the approximate "effectiveness" of a knack choice) would be a good starting resource. Then you can select an appropriate class to mimic structurally.

In addition, most classes (especially martial classes) have a "social/exploration" set of class features, like the Fighter's Steely Mien/Martial Lore features. I think it's probably worth charting out when those abilities come up for the existing classes, and making sure the converted classes have an appropriate ability around those same levels.

After that, you'd want to scan the class list for any abilities that should be better represented as Knacks, particularly things like Warlock Invocations, where combat/exploration options are both incorporated into a shared picklist.

If it's a primary martial class/combatant then it should probably interface with the maneuver system. Stealing the maneuver progression from an existing class and assigning a few appropriate schools is probably fine, though if the class has an extensive maneuver-style system (or really any point-based in combat resource) it might make sense to turn those abilities into a combat tradition. The important thing for maneuvers is much more the resource management than the actual content of the abilities; you could easily create a "magical" combat tradition, as long as you're comfortable with them recovering on a short rest and/or assigning them point costs.

Finally some thoughts on specific mechanics: abilities that provide advantage should be evaluated to see if they would be better off providing expertise. A5E is much more sparing with advantage as a guaranteed benefit from a class ability, and tends to assign a higher power-budget to such abilities when they come up. Similarly, abilities that provide proficiency and/or situational skill bonuses should be evaluated to see if they can be represented with a specialty instead.

 

[SongOfSisyphus]

After some finagling with some resources, I've compiled a list of readily-available homebrew classes that I have tried to convert to A5E:

A5E Community Class Conversion Project (A5E-CCCP)

No description.

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com

Available in the document are Arcanist, Bloodrager, Blue Traveller, Cavalier, Disciple, Guardian, Keeper, Magus and Oracle. Credits given in the document proper.

As I've kind of rushed this one out the door, I have opted mainly to reuse progression and knacks from other classes, although I'm sure given more time and effort some unique knacks will surface.

I have also done conversion work of a similar calibre on a number of paid-only classes, and it would be a bad idea to redistribute any of those, but I will see if I can find a simple way of representing algorithmically the steps I took to convert those further classes to A5E (namely
Dancer, Alchemist, Craftsman, Gunslinger, Necromancer, Accursed, Elementalist, Sealer, Cardcaster, Runekeeper, Morph, Occultist, Warmage, Blood Hunter, Shaman, Monster Tamer and Gemini) without revealing publically any of the details of their existing implementations.

Let me know if there are any obvious mistakes I've made in the document I've posted, and I suppose this thread could also serve as a potential fertile ground for inventing knacks that might fit with any of the numerous classes I have just listed.

 

[Fareed]

After some finagling with some resources, I've compiled a list of readily-available homebrew classes that I have tried to convert to A5E:

A5E Community Class Conversion Project (A5E-CCCP)

No description.

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com

Available in the document are Arcanist, Bloodrager, Blue Traveller, Cavalier, Disciple, Guardian, Keeper, Magus and Oracle. Credits given in the document proper.

As I've kind of rushed this one out the door, I have opted mainly to reuse progression and knacks from other classes, although I'm sure given more time and effort some unique knacks will surface.

I have also done conversion work of a similar calibre on a number of paid-only classes, and it would be a bad idea to redistribute any of those, but I will see if I can find a simple way of representing algorithmically the steps I took to convert those further classes to A5E (namely
Dancer, Alchemist, Craftsman, Gunslinger, Necromancer, Accursed, Elementalist, Sealer, Cardcaster, Runekeeper, Morph, Occultist, Warmage, Blood Hunter, Shaman, Monster Tamer and Gemini) without revealing publically any of the details of their existing implementations.

Let me know if there are any obvious mistakes I've made in the document I've posted, and I suppose this thread could also serve as a potential fertile ground for inventing knacks that might fit with any of the numerous classes I have just listed.

So I really love what you're trying to do here. I've only read the Arcanist so far and I love what I see. The only mistake I've noised is that Occultist archetype's level 10 references summon fiend as a a 5th level spell but it actually a 6th level spell which Arcanists don't have access to at that level.

 

[SongOfSisyphus]

So I really love what you're trying to do here. I've only read the Arcanist so far and I love what I see. The only mistake I've noised is that Occultist archetype's level 10 references summon fiend as a a 5th level spell but it actually a 6th level spell which Arcanists don't have access to at that level.

Well-caught with the Occultist's feature. I've added some clarifying language to allow occultists to cast Summon Fiend at 5th level with a slight nerf to balance out the earlier availability. I.E., it will allow Occultist Arcanists and only Occultist Arcanists to 'downcast' the spell at 5th level. Of course this will only be relevant at precisely level 10 because they can only downcast with that one feature that doesn't actually expend a spell slot, but it means they still get to do their thing despite not having 6th level spells yet; at 11th level they graduate to casting it as a 6th level spell.

 

[Steampunkette]

Absolutely incredible. The amount of work you've done on this is shocking.

 

[SongOfSisyphus]

Absolutely incredible. The amount of work you've done on this is shocking.

It looks more impressive than it actually is, although I would love to accept the compliment; the kind of work I've engaged here in is highly derivative so far (to the point I've taken specific pains not to change anything unless it looks obviously busted under the new paradigm), and I can only refer everyone to the high-quality hard work that the rest of the O5E community have already put out; I couldn't have hoped to do anything like this if I was relying solely on my own intellectual property.

Speaking of other people's intellectual property, I think I have devised a methodology for communicating my changes to proprietary classes without actually revealing any implementation details and violating people's copyrighted expressions. Luckily as most of the features A5E introduces are wholly additive, it is possible to share these changes with everyone (provided I do so carefully), so I can introduce all of you to the A5E Proprietary Class Algorithmic Conversion Project:

A5E proprietary class algorithmic conversion project (A5E-PCACP)

No description.

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com

 

[MegaloRob]

I have been thinking about this as well. I haven't thought as hard as you have tho.

The class I am considering first is the Star wars 5e guardian.

I want to keep it mostly the same. I would give it maneuvers like the herald. And I would give it the advancement table of the Herald. But give its social environmental choices a combo of the herald and marshall.