Homebrew Regarding converting O5E third party and homebrew classes to A5E

SongOfSisyphus

Villager
I'm trying to convert some O5E third-party classes for use with A5E, and it seems like somewhat of a daunting task. Are there any particular design principles I should bear in mind, other than "Martial characters should get access to manoeuvres, and maybe steal a few knacks, arcane secrets or elective studies from some classes, as appropriate?"

For reference, the list I am considering (along with some irrelevant and likely doomed attempts from me to try and bring in spell pools) is as follows:
 

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foxblade

Villager
As I understand the design principles (and it looks like you have a good grasp on them), it's challenging because like wotc o5e classes, most o5e classes have a combat focus. In a5e, exploration is added via knacks (or their equivalent) and social skills are mixed in with combat skills as part of class features. A5e also offers choices (a good amount of the time) when class features are gained.

Just have to hit all 3 pillars, roughly equally. Add choice. Martials should get maneuvers: 3rd party A5e maneuvers (Purple Martin Games and Steampunkette's Paranormal Power), as well as Gate Pass Gazette, help with this quite a lot - more choices mean you are not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Roll Them Bones Gaming has also created the Witch and Scholar class in their two release products for a look at how some one else has tackled the issue.

This is all easier said than done - I am struggling with this myself.
 


Pedantic

Legend
It seems to me that the most significant A5E difference you'd want to chart out is the Knack system. I haven't done this yet, but modeling the number of available Knack choices and acquisition schedule for each of the existing A5E classes (and maybe doing a quick rating on the approximate "effectiveness" of a knack choice) would be a good starting resource. Then you can select an appropriate class to mimic structurally.

In addition, most classes (especially martial classes) have a "social/exploration" set of class features, like the Fighter's Steely Mien/Martial Lore features. I think it's probably worth charting out when those abilities come up for the existing classes, and making sure the converted classes have an appropriate ability around those same levels.

After that, you'd want to scan the class list for any abilities that should be better represented as Knacks, particularly things like Warlock Invocations, where combat/exploration options are both incorporated into a shared picklist.

If it's a primary martial class/combatant then it should probably interface with the maneuver system. Stealing the maneuver progression from an existing class and assigning a few appropriate schools is probably fine, though if the class has an extensive maneuver-style system (or really any point-based in combat resource) it might make sense to turn those abilities into a combat tradition. The important thing for maneuvers is much more the resource management than the actual content of the abilities; you could easily create a "magical" combat tradition, as long as you're comfortable with them recovering on a short rest and/or assigning them point costs.

Finally some thoughts on specific mechanics: abilities that provide advantage should be evaluated to see if they would be better off providing expertise. A5E is much more sparing with advantage as a guaranteed benefit from a class ability, and tends to assign a higher power-budget to such abilities when they come up. Similarly, abilities that provide proficiency and/or situational skill bonuses should be evaluated to see if they can be represented with a specialty instead.
 

SongOfSisyphus

Villager
After some finagling with some resources, I've compiled a list of readily-available homebrew classes that I have tried to convert to A5E:

Available in the document are Arcanist, Bloodrager, Blue Traveller, Cavalier, Disciple, Guardian, Keeper, Magus and Oracle. Credits given in the document proper.

As I've kind of rushed this one out the door, I have opted mainly to reuse progression and knacks from other classes, although I'm sure given more time and effort some unique knacks will surface.

I have also done conversion work of a similar calibre on a number of paid-only classes, and it would be a bad idea to redistribute any of those, but I will see if I can find a simple way of representing algorithmically the steps I took to convert those further classes to A5E (namely
Dancer, Alchemist, Craftsman, Gunslinger, Necromancer, Accursed, Elementalist, Sealer, Cardcaster, Runekeeper, Morph, Occultist, Warmage, Blood Hunter, Shaman, Monster Tamer and Gemini) without revealing publically any of the details of their existing implementations.

Let me know if there are any obvious mistakes I've made in the document I've posted, and I suppose this thread could also serve as a potential fertile ground for inventing knacks that might fit with any of the numerous classes I have just listed.
 

Fareed

Villager
After some finagling with some resources, I've compiled a list of readily-available homebrew classes that I have tried to convert to A5E:

Available in the document are Arcanist, Bloodrager, Blue Traveller, Cavalier, Disciple, Guardian, Keeper, Magus and Oracle. Credits given in the document proper.

As I've kind of rushed this one out the door, I have opted mainly to reuse progression and knacks from other classes, although I'm sure given more time and effort some unique knacks will surface.

I have also done conversion work of a similar calibre on a number of paid-only classes, and it would be a bad idea to redistribute any of those, but I will see if I can find a simple way of representing algorithmically the steps I took to convert those further classes to A5E (namely
Dancer, Alchemist, Craftsman, Gunslinger, Necromancer, Accursed, Elementalist, Sealer, Cardcaster, Runekeeper, Morph, Occultist, Warmage, Blood Hunter, Shaman, Monster Tamer and Gemini) without revealing publically any of the details of their existing implementations.

Let me know if there are any obvious mistakes I've made in the document I've posted, and I suppose this thread could also serve as a potential fertile ground for inventing knacks that might fit with any of the numerous classes I have just listed.
So I really love what you're trying to do here. I've only read the Arcanist so far and I love what I see. The only mistake I've noised is that Occultist archetype's level 10 references summon fiend as a a 5th level spell but it actually a 6th level spell which Arcanists don't have access to at that level.
 
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SongOfSisyphus

Villager
So I really love what you're trying to do here. I've only read the Arcanist so far and I love what I see. The only mistake I've noised is that Occultist archetype's level 10 references summon fiend as a a 5th level spell but it actually a 6th level spell which Arcanists don't have access to at that level.

Well-caught with the Occultist's feature. I've added some clarifying language to allow occultists to cast Summon Fiend at 5th level with a slight nerf to balance out the earlier availability. I.E., it will allow Occultist Arcanists and only Occultist Arcanists to 'downcast' the spell at 5th level. Of course this will only be relevant at precisely level 10 because they can only downcast with that one feature that doesn't actually expend a spell slot, but it means they still get to do their thing despite not having 6th level spells yet; at 11th level they graduate to casting it as a 6th level spell.
 
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SongOfSisyphus

Villager
Absolutely incredible. The amount of work you've done on this is shocking.
It looks more impressive than it actually is, although I would love to accept the compliment; the kind of work I've engaged here in is highly derivative so far (to the point I've taken specific pains not to change anything unless it looks obviously busted under the new paradigm), and I can only refer everyone to the high-quality hard work that the rest of the O5E community have already put out; I couldn't have hoped to do anything like this if I was relying solely on my own intellectual property.

Speaking of other people's intellectual property, I think I have devised a methodology for communicating my changes to proprietary classes without actually revealing any implementation details and violating people's copyrighted expressions. Luckily as most of the features A5E introduces are wholly additive, it is possible to share these changes with everyone (provided I do so carefully), so I can introduce all of you to the A5E Proprietary Class Algorithmic Conversion Project:
 

MegaloRob

Explorer
I have been thinking about this as well. I haven't thought as hard as you have tho.

The class I am considering first is the Star wars 5e guardian.

I want to keep it mostly the same. I would give it maneuvers like the herald. And I would give it the advancement table of the Herald. But give its social environmental choices a combo of the herald and marshall.
 

WanderingMystic

Adventurer
I love the work you have done with these, a few look like the power might need to be adjusted (I'm looking at you Bloodrager and Magus) but you said that you for the most part just tried to add the little extras that make a A5E class have so much utility and depth and not change around core mechanics.

I just saw your second pdf and I am looking forward to seeing some of those.
 

SongOfSisyphus

Villager
I love the work you have done with these, a few look like the power might need to be adjusted (I'm looking at you Bloodrager and Magus) but you said that you for the most part just tried to add the little extras that make a A5E class have so much utility and depth and not change around core mechanics.
Thanks. I've been thinking about some of the stuff I added to the Magus actually and upon reflection, past me has been kind of silly. For instance, I was giving it arcane defenses before the wizard gets it, and I accidentally opened up an exploit for multiclass characters by trying to do something clever with the magus-specific resource. So, given the notion that the Magus seems a little bit overtuned, it makes sense to get rid of Arcane Defenses entirely (because potential resistance on spell damage is a big deal), and I'm going to have to introduce a sort of awkward multiclassing rule to eliminate the exploit: 1) the feature that allows magus to cast combat maneuvers from magus points can only work if the magus has a magus level equal to or greater than the size of their maneuver pool + 1, and 2) If a magus multiclasses into a class that grants a maneuver pool, their maneuver pool increases from 0 by 1 for each level of a class that grants a maneuver pool, up to the level their maneuver pool would max out if they were any other class and multiclassed into that class. (I might have to clamp down further and specify that the sum of the levels of classes that grant maneuver pools must be equal to half your magus level -1 for you to be able to convert arcana points, in order to stop the dreaded 1-level dip.)

But yeah, after I iron out these initial hiccups I'm all for accepting suggestions on class balance so that everything plays nicely and within the same general powerlevel as every other class. Avoiding changing the underlying content was mainly out of a lack of confidence in my own tinkering skills when it comes to game balance as I've not got a great deal of proven 5e homebrew under my belt thus far, so figured that giving a full document with minimal changes would at the very least serve as a good starting point and springing-off board.

One particular bit of creative license I remember pulling with the Bloodrager was making sure the only damaging cantrips it got were weapon cantrips and Lightning Lure (because I feel that Lightning Lure is not utilised as much, and would be terrifying to have a Bloodrager use that on you)

Edit: Also I just got my copy of the Annual GPG 2022, so expect to see Arcane Knight tradition stapled onto a few classes where it would make sense.
 
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WanderingMystic

Adventurer
So looking at the Magus things that I would change or modify.

1: Do away with arcana points , first the number they have feels like to much compared to what other classes can do. Second that is another resource to track. (Ep already is used for mystical effects by the adept so there is no reason to have a second resource.)

2: Instead of treating them like the herald with no exertion just start them off with exertion points at 2nd level. Just like an adept let them use there exertion points to fuel anything you had them spending ap for. Still allow them to trade spell slots for ep at a 1-2 ratio. (Using ep for what you were wanting AP for in addition to maneuvers removes the worry you had over them being able to double dip by getting ep form other sources.)

3: Like the Adept give them bonus ep at higher levels but try to make sure that they don't get more than the adept remember you can already sacrifice spell slots for them. (You should be looking for at most 20 by level 20 so an extra 8 above what you would normally get. This is just my opinion from a balance perspective but with the spell slot possibilities they can get alot)

4: Spell strike is very powerful, in fact it is far to powerful for a 1st level ability so I would limit it to only being Magus spells (so that if you multi class it doesn't help as much) and proficiency bonus times per short rest.

Right now they have more options than a herald or an adept and also more power than one. The more options is fine and very thematic so just work on lowering their over all power level so that they are not the automatic go to choice.
 
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SongOfSisyphus

Villager
1: Do away with arcana points , first the number they have feels like to much compared to what other classes can do. Second that is another resource to track. (Ep already is used for mystical effects by the adept so there is no reason to have a second resource.)

2: Instead of treating them like the herald with no exertion just start them off with exertion points at 2nd level. Just like an adept let them use there exertion points to fuel anything you had them spending ap for. Still allow them to trade spell slots for ep at a 1-2 ratio. (Using ep for what you were wanting AP for in addition to maneuvers removes the worry you had over them being able to double dip by getting ep form other sources.)

3: Like the Adept give them bonus ep at higher levels but try to make sure that they don't get more than the adept remember you can already sacrifice spell slots for them. (You should be looking for at most 20 by level 20 so an extra 8 above what you would normally get. This is just my opinion from a balance perspective but with the spell slot possibilities they can get alot)

4: Spell strike is very powerful, in fact it is far to powerful for a 1st level ability so I would limit it to only being Magus spells (so that if you multi class it doesn't help as much) and proficiency bonus times per short rest.

Right now they have more options than a herald or an adept and also more power than one. The more options is fine and very thematic so just work on lowering their over all power level so that they are not the automatic go to choice.
My thoughts on this:
I think 1 and 2 are in conflict. I made the explicit decision not to allow magus to trade spell slots for exertion (as it already had a resource it could trade for exertion, and it uses spell slots for spellstrike), so I think it becomes a matter between picking whether we give it full maneuver pool with an adept's bonus exertion (good idea, which I'm more partial to) or between letting them use spell slots for exertion, which kind of makes spell slots suffer being a double-premium resource (the likelihood that a magus ever actually casts spells considering they'd be used for both spellstrike and fueling maneuvers seems vanishingly slim). We can't really allow both because that gives them a ridiculously large exertion potential compared with basically everyone else.

3) As stated, more inclined to roll everything into bonus exertion as per an adept and get rid of the ability to trade spell slots for exertion, this seems like a good tradeoff to me.

4) The changes you suggest don't do anything to reduce its power as a first-level ability, but at the same time both of the changes you suggest here are extremely sensible.

I will get to work on updating according to these particular propositions soon.
 

WanderingMystic

Adventurer
I am glad I can give you ideas to bounce around. Out of the two options I do think that since you will wanting to be using your spells for spell strike just going with exertion points like a monk is the better of the two options.

Originaly I was thinking about limiting your spell strikes to one spell level lower than you could cast so at first it was just cantrips then at 5th letting you use 1st but then I thought just limiting the times per short rest felt more thematically appropriate.

A little more twerking and I think the Magus will be in a very good place.

The blood rager will be the next one it really looks at only because it gets spells and it gets extra damage on hit like a herald on top of that it gets exertion and rages like a berserker. Right now just looking at it it feels like it's gets the best of both classes while giving up some nice things but ultimately not enough in my opinion.

On a cursory glance most of the other look much better and might only be in need of some light tweaking.
 

SongOfSisyphus

Villager
I am glad I can give you ideas to bounce around. Out of the two options I do think that since you will wanting to be using your spells for spell strike just going with exertion points like a monk is the better of the two options.

Originaly I was thinking about limiting your spell strikes to one spell level lower than you could cast so at first it was just cantrips then at 5th letting you use 1st but then I thought just limiting the times per short rest felt more thematically appropriate.

A little more twerking and I think the Magus will be in a very good place.

I've added the changes I listed. I much prefer the short rest limit to the delay in power one. Also means that a Magus might not just blow all their spell slots on spellstrike in one encounter, and encourages them to actually cast spells as well. Plus "your proficiency bonus per short rest" abilities are nice and roll off the tongue a bit better, and makes it behave sort of analogous to Herald's new smite mechanic (although spellstrike will often likely be more powerful than smites, because in addition to the proficiency bonus per short rest thing, it also will require spell slot investment).

The blood rager will be the next one it really looks at only because it gets spells and it gets extra damage on hit like a herald on top of that it gets exertion and rages like a berserker. Right now just looking at it it feels like it's gets the best of both classes while giving up some nice things but ultimately not enough in my opinion.
1) The extra damage only applies during bloodrage, which especially in the early tiers you might not have every encounter, as the Bloodrage number is on a per long-rest basis.
2) It gets maneuvers, but like a Herald it also has no maneuver pool and must expend spell slots to fuel them.
3) Although A5E's Herald changes nerfing smite at early tiers might make it seem unreasonable to get +1d4 every attack while bloodraging, 1d4 is still 2 die-steps lower than 1d8 (and literally the lowest die step). Also I made doubly sure that bloodrage doesn't grant bonus HP like Berserker's new rage does, so it is actually a weaker rage effect (that lets you cast spells while raging).
4) Bloodrager's Maneuver progression is the Herald's, and not as generous as the Berserker's. Bloodragers, like Heralds, never get 5th-degree moves, which are a degree that should be saved for pure martials like Berserker.

To my general sensibilities it seems to have counterpoints to the many ways in which it feels strong. I also yeeted most of its damaging ranged cantrips. To me this was mostly a flavour thing, but it has a side benefit of if a bloodrager wants damaging ranged cantrips they have to actually invest in them with a feat for instance.
Possible ways to address bloodrage being a little too good in earlier tier might be to just reduce it to a flat 1 at levels 1 and 2, a flat 2 at 3 and 4, and then a 1d4 as usual from levels 5-8
 
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WanderingMystic

Adventurer
Those are all sound points. I hadn't really done a deep dive comparison with that class yet, just kind of looking at it just gave me the initial jump scare.

Most of the other classes I have had a chance to look at I really like.
Arcanist - haven't looked at
Bloodrager -You have alleviated my original fears. Gets more consistent damage but less than a herald, exchanges healing for damage reduction should be balanced.
Blue Traveler - looks solid. It is hard to tell how powerful it might get as it gets higher in level but I would allow it at my table as is.
Cavalier - personal I don't think they need a fighters fighting style as in a5e those were moved to being just for fighters. Love how the mounts are handled.
Disciple - haven't taken a look at it
Guardian - haven't taken a look at it
Keeper - How have I never seen this class before, wow I love it. I am confused as to why they get maneuvers unless the maneuvers are to be used by the summons and then you can add an ability for the martial archetype so that they can use them as well. I just don't think that if I were playing one I would ever use that feature for myself and focus on being a cantrip caster.
Magus - We have discussed this class in depth. It feels more unique than just a herald who is arcane. It feels balanced. The idea of Magus Arcane as a unique way for them to spend ep makes them unique which I like and sakes there spells for spell strikes and just basic casting. Some of the langue in the archetypes will need to be tidied up but they each look great. With the arcane one state that spell slots created out of ep are lost during a short rest if they are not used, just to prevent someone from creating dozens of spell slots
Oracle - In general looks good. As far as the Ancestors Mystery goes neither of the combat spells listed have been added to level up or have been checked for balance. I would instead model their ability on the warlocks eldritch Scythe. You could also just minorly tweek the cantrips and add it at the end but I don't know if any other class should get access to it that is why I think the Eldritch Scythe might be better.
 


WanderingMystic

Adventurer
Battlerager - Simple fixes, I still don't like the dwarf requirements mainly because to me that is just one version of the archetype. The one thing that I did with mine in 5e that would be perfect for a5e is tailor it to battle defence (also with battle defense a berserker can wear heavy armor which is what the origional Dwarves who this was based off of used.)

So in mine you could either enhance your armor/ shields with spikes if you go battle defense or if you go rugged defense then you have sharpened scales, an elemental aura, imbedded spikes in your skin, a mutation or maybe even a symbiot that helps you to lash out. (Mine was an Ebberon symbiot that was a mouth in my chest that would bite people).

Four Elements - So what I would do with this archetype is make it more generalized, the archetype can be used for a shadow dancer, a tattooed monk, ninjas, or an four elements monk.

1st change: let them swap a new power at every level not just when they get a new ability to me that is a quality of life change.

2nd change: At level 6 allow them to use flurry of blows as a bonus action after casting a spell or ability gained from this class.

3rd change: At the end add an alternate take let the player pick 4 of the minor spell schools to have access to like acid, fire, shadow see pg 493 of the adventures guide. This let's someone tailor the class to fit a number of options that are all using ep to cast spell like abilities without the need to create a new class for each.
 

SongOfSisyphus

Villager
Bloodrager -You have alleviated my original fears. Gets more consistent damage but less than a herald, exchanges healing for damage reduction should be balanced.
Good Stuff
Blue Traveler - looks solid. It is hard to tell how powerful it might get as it gets higher in level but I would allow it at my table as is.
Best rule of thumb with Blue Traveller (might rename the class to something else when I can think of a decent name for it) is that for the most part it'll only really be as strong as the abilities you throw at it, as a Narrator. Spells up to level 5 will be balanced, even though they get a big bump for not technically having a list, and are able to learn what's cast on them, but it shouldn't be a huge deal in later tiers especially as the full casters start to get their higher-level spell slots. The only area where this class can conceivably get out of control is if you start throwing very deadly effects at them that they survive and learn, at which point it's kind of on your encounter design as a GM, and you should think carefully about the kind of effects that it is wise to throw at the Traveller.

Cavalier - personal I don't think they need a fighters fighting style as in a5e those were moved to being just for fighters. Love how the mounts are handled.
I can see the argument here and it does make sense, but at the same time on a personal level I think Cavalier (and also Guardian) are close enough in their DNA and class identity to Fighter that giving them a fighting style doesn't seem like too much of an issue.

Keeper - How have I never seen this class before, wow I love it. I am confused as to why they get maneuvers unless the maneuvers are to be used by the summons and then you can add an ability for the martial archetype so that they can use them as well. I just don't think that if I were playing one I would ever use that feature for myself and focus on being a cantrip caster.
Reasons it gets maneuvers:
1) it's a halfcaster and there is precedence for half-casters getting maneuvers. (on its own kind of a weak point, because of the halfcasters this is the one that gets the most outright spellcasting potential)
2) Its maneuver pool works the same as for a Herald, as does its maneuver progression.
3) One of the traditions you can pick is Beast Unity (and the only reason this isn't an automatic "You get Beast Unity and another tradition" is because the Unity archetype causes you to fuse with your spirit, making them less of a companion and more of a part of you). Unfortunately there's only one real "Companion" sort of tradition, so most of the other maneuvers will be used by the Keeper, but I think one of the options I provided was Sanguine Knot, which is a very teamwork-focused tradition, which might well be a good fit for a Keeper's companion. But yeah Keeper's identity isn't really an in-the-thick-of-it style, so focusing on teamwork-based maneuvers are probably going to be your go-to anyway, if you're not a Unity Keeper.

Magus - We have discussed this class in depth. It feels more unique than just a herald who is arcane. It feels balanced. The idea of Magus Arcane as a unique way for them to spend ep makes them unique which I like and sakes there spells for spell strikes and just basic casting. Some of the langue in the archetypes will need to be tidied up but they each look great. With the arcane one state that spell slots created out of ep are lost during a short rest if they are not used, just to prevent someone from creating dozens of spell slots
Good change, will implement on next pass.

Oracle - In general looks good. As far as the Ancestors Mystery goes neither of the combat spells listed have been added to level up or have been checked for balance. I would instead model their ability on the warlocks eldritch Scythe. You could also just minorly tweek the cantrips and add it at the end but I don't know if any other class should get access to it that is why I think the Eldritch Scythe might be better.
Will look into it. I have been meaning to make a Community Conversion Project for officially-published spells from Wizards' that haven't made their way into A5E yet. I imagine most of the workload there will just be organising everything and adding the appropriate tags that A5E appears to use for its spells, and issuing changes to spells that are either garbo or too good. But there are only so many hours in the day so I might lag behind a bit, time-wise.

Now I want to see the Blood Hunter and maybe the Pugilist but the new Adept does fix most of the problems the Pugilist fixed with the monk.
So I can't reproduce the Blood Hunter in its entirety for intellectual property reasons (EDIT: Wait, if it's Pay What You Want I might be able to get away with it), but I have addressed it in the PCACP if I recall correctly. The reason why I did not bother to convert the Pugilist even though it is a rightfully very popular third-party class is that I also felt A5E's adept rounded out the flavour and mechanical territory on it pretty nicely.

Battlerager - Simple fixes, I still don't like the dwarf requirements mainly because to me that is just one version of the archetype. The one thing that I did with mine in 5e that would be perfect for a5e is tailor it to battle defence (also with battle defense a berserker can wear heavy armor which is what the origional Dwarves who this was based off of used.)

So in mine you could either enhance your armor/ shields with spikes if you go battle defense or if you go rugged defense then you have sharpened scales, an elemental aura, imbedded spikes in your skin, a mutation or maybe even a symbiot that helps you to lash out. (Mine was an Ebberon symbiot that was a mouth in my chest that would bite people).
Regarding the Battlerager Dwarf Requirement thing, big same. Only reason I included that in there was for flavour reasons and I imagine that any sensible Narrator will toss the Dwarf Requirement aside. Will consider tweaking battlerager around battle defense types.

Four Elements - So what I would do with this archetype is make it more generalized, the archetype can be used for a shadow dancer, a tattooed monk, ninjas, or an four elements monk.
1st change: let them swap a new power at every level not just when they get a new ability to me that is a quality of life change.

2nd change: At level 6 allow them to use flurry of blows as a bonus action after casting a spell or ability gained from this class.

3rd change: At the end add an alternate take let the player pick 4 of the minor spell schools to have access to like acid, fire, shadow see pg 493 of the adventures guide. This let's someone tailor the class to fit a number of options that are all using ep to cast spell like abilities without the need to create a new class for each.

1st change) 100%, this makes sense and should be the way the archetype was written in the first place

2nd change) Yeah, this makes sense, kind of sucks to spend your action on something and then just sit on your hands as a bonus action.

3rd change) This might require a little more consideration than the other two changes. For instance we'd still have to be able to concretely calculate what the exertion cost of a particular effect would be, which would mean that simply adding spells of a particular tag might give us a bit of a knowledge problem, unless we literally go through all the spells that could be added by tag and give them exertion point costs.

I'm sort of hit-or-miss on the precise level to which we should generalise Four Elements further. I can maybe see a shadowdancer or a tattooed monk represented by this, but I feel like something like a ninja would probably benefit from its own specific archetype.
 
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