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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 1571062" data-attributes="member: 177">In a way, yes, they are they same thing.  Throng may not be Bob, but Bob can see that in pitting Throng against an orc, his is now engaged in a battle of wits and luck with Joe, who is the GM.  Having called the thing a hobby beforehand isn't going to change that.And somehow the word "hobby" allows that distancing while "game" explicitly disallows it?  That's just not so.  We already allow the distance.Player-character relations do deserve their own thread, yes.  But that doesn't render it off the path now.  So far, your contention that "hobby" will de-emphasize competition between players is your strongest argument for your proposed name change.  As such, whether or not the word "hobby" would have such an effect is right smack dab in the middle of the path.See above.  Throng is in armed conflict with an orc, or in a battle of wits  with the King's Vizier, or what have you.  Presumably the player wants to come out on top in this conflict.  If the activity is to be interesting, it must be set up so that Bob has to exert some wits and find some luck.  In effect, he's in a small competition with his GM, where Throng and the orc are the playing pieces.There are some people who are turned off by the word "game", yes.  In order to for this all to mean growth for the activity, these folks would have to represent a larger market than those who like it as a game.  So far, you have effectively asserted that would be the case.  However, you've yet to provide a shred of actual evidence.Honestly, I think you are dead wrong.  Games are a very big business in the US.  While there are some folks who specifically don't like games, it seems to me that marketing to the game-players will get more sales.  Very rarely is revolution a good tactic when money is involved.  I suggest you try for evolution instead.  Rather than make a great big push to turn teh whole thing on it's ear, try instead to lobby for products that cater to the sorts of activity you prefer.  Lobbying for a global change here is... a bit of a waste of energy.  We here on the boards don't represent a large enough proportion of players to implement it.  A small number fo folks trying to insist on such would likely be deemed pretentious.  Lobbying for more products that emphasize the role-play and adventure and such would be far more effective, IMHO.</blockquote>

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