Reinventing the Adepts

[Squire James]

Perhaps fiend HD can be doubled for turning purposes, and then it may be more balanced for mid-level priests. An effective turning level of 18 would make a marilith a tough customer, while still keeping the stats for weaker fiends somewhat reasonable.

Another solution to the problem would be to keep the turning ability normal, and simply double the HD of all the fiends! I've always thought a six-armed whirlwind of female demonic death should last more than one round in combat.

If you're feeling especially cruel, figure out a way to give that marilith monk levels (though that "always chaotic evil" thing kinda messes it up in the general case). "Does the marilith have six weapons? No? Run away!"

 

[hong]

Perhaps fiend HD can be doubled for turning purposes, and then it may be more balanced for mid-level priests. An effective turning level of 18 would make a marilith a tough customer, while still keeping the stats for weaker fiends somewhat reasonable.

That could work. A problem with this is that anything with more than 12 HD becomes unturnable by anyone short of an Epic-level character. That would include balors, pit fiends, death slaad and noble salamanders. Although maybe that's a feature rather than a bug....

Another solution to the problem would be to keep the turning ability normal, and simply double the HD of all the fiends! I've always thought a six-armed whirlwind of female demonic death should last more than one round in combat.

If you're feeling especially cruel, figure out a way to give that marilith monk levels (though that "always chaotic evil" thing kinda messes it up in the general case). "Does the marilith have six weapons? No? Run away!"

These could work too.

Another thing I was thinking of was to give all fiends with > 5 HD a Will save to avoid being turned.

 

[Cyronax]

I assume that by increasing a fiend's turn resistance, a celestial's is likewise increased? That seems like a logical D&D outcome....

But what about elementals and other outsiders? How come elementals are able to be turned by a 1st level cleric and fiends/celestials would be so much able to resist. That question would have to be answered before the priest's 14th level class ability could take effect IMC.

I suppose that elementals are kind of equivalent to nature spirits. At least that's the way I play them. A non-standard cosmology, where there are no elemental planes, with them being considered a fundamental parts of the material plane itself could be a useful rationalization.

Roll with it,
C.I.D.

 

[Dark Psion]

I don't use the Adept, I use either the Sorcerer or the Shukenja from OA for amatuer spellcasters or innate casters, and if I want a true witch or warlock I multiclass and use both.

 

[trancejeremy]

I think the Adept is largely the NPC version of the Witch class. Of course, there isn't a witch class per se (it's sort of hinted at in the DMG, with the spell list). But I like the idea - something of a hybrid of Priest and Wizard, only with less powerful spells

 

[ColonelHardisson]

As an aside, I've seen comments before about how the Witch, as presented in the DMG, isn't really a class. I think it is. Probably the main point of that section is to ullustrate how easy it is to both create a new class by doing something as simple as creating a new spell list, and to add personalized flavor to one's campaign with simple use of the rules. At least, that's how I see it. I mean, heck, PCGen has the DMG Witch listed as a class.

 

[hong]

I assume that by increasing a fiend's turn resistance, a celestial's is likewise increased? That seems like a logical D&D outcome....

Actually, note that as written, the turn/rebuke ability only applies to _fiends_ (evil outsiders), not celestials. If you're an evil priest, you can compel demons to do your bidding, just as good priests can banish them. Create a gate, pull a balor through, and tell it to shine your shoes (or whatever). Celestials don't come into it at all.

Thinking about it a bit more, I should probably define "fiends" as being outsiders with the evil subtype. This would include demons and devils, but not, eg, salamanders (who are outsiders who happen to have an evil alignment).

But what about elementals and other outsiders? How come elementals are able to be turned by a 1st level cleric and fiends/celestials would be so much able to resist. That question would have to be answered before the priest's 14th level class ability could take effect IMC.

I suppose that elementals are kind of equivalent to nature spirits. At least that's the way I play them. A non-standard cosmology, where there are no elemental planes, with them being considered a fundamental parts of the material plane itself could be a useful rationalization.

That's not a bad idea. Although personally, I think the basic premise of the elemental domains giving you the rebuke ability is a bit broken.

 

[Cyronax]

That's not a bad idea. Although personally, I think the basic premise of the elemental domains giving you the rebuke ability is a bit broken.

I agree wholehearedly. The whole Domain system is out of whack IMO.