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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 7871073" data-attributes="member: 957"><p>I see a lot of fallacies here. </p><p>You start throwing around a bunch of ad hominems. "obsessives" "wonks" and of course the dreaded "edition warrior". How about we just try objective assessments?</p><p></p><p>If PF2 had bumped 5E off the #1 spot would you be here saying that the system was irrelevent to that? I'll suspect that you'll just say "of course", but I'll go out on a limb and doubt it. Quite simply, suggesting that it is not true that people play games they like and don't play games they dislike is an absurdity. And here it seems the kind of squint and tilt your head rationalization that results from being unhappy with the obvious interpretation.</p><p></p><p>You badly cherry pick your data regarding the reception of 5E. Overall the response was very positive. Yes, there were 4e diehards who were (understandably) disappointed. And yes, there were other who complained. Heck, <em>I</em> have a lot of issues with 5E RAW. But the game was embraced from the get go. The detractors were few and far between if you use 4E and even PF2E as a reference.</p><p></p><p>Then you say "90% the same" for something that can't actually be quantified. But, hey, lets go with it. Jack and Coke and Strychnine and Coke are 90% the same as well. That 10% can be important. I really LOVE several elements of PF2E. But, to me, the parts that fail, fail badly. You can't just ignore the content of what did change.</p><p></p><p>You ignored my question about the current AP.</p><p>I have a few more questions for you.</p><p>If system makes no difference, then why make a new system?</p><p>If APs control success, then why did PF1E drop in popularity?</p><p>If APs control success, then why should anyone expect PF2E in 2020 to be any more popular than PF1E in 2017?</p><p></p><p>You said that Paizo's core skill is creating adventures. Would you elaborate on why you said that when the topic is core system design. The implication of your redirection is that you don't want to comment on the system design. Is that true? Or would you be expand on your position and reconcile that disconnect?</p><p></p><p>The bottom line is: people will play games they like. The success of PF2E will live or die based on what people think of that core over the long run. One third of a year in it does not look like the trend is promising. And if that is the case, then it does not make one an "edition warrior" to say so. I'd really like to see a great replacement for PF1E. If your google-fu is good you can probably find me saying that right after 2E was announced but before we had any details. But actually having and honest dissatisfaction with the system is a completely reasonable position and does not deserve ad hominem attacks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 7871073, member: 957"] I see a lot of fallacies here. You start throwing around a bunch of ad hominems. "obsessives" "wonks" and of course the dreaded "edition warrior". How about we just try objective assessments? If PF2 had bumped 5E off the #1 spot would you be here saying that the system was irrelevent to that? I'll suspect that you'll just say "of course", but I'll go out on a limb and doubt it. Quite simply, suggesting that it is not true that people play games they like and don't play games they dislike is an absurdity. And here it seems the kind of squint and tilt your head rationalization that results from being unhappy with the obvious interpretation. You badly cherry pick your data regarding the reception of 5E. Overall the response was very positive. Yes, there were 4e diehards who were (understandably) disappointed. And yes, there were other who complained. Heck, [I]I[/I] have a lot of issues with 5E RAW. But the game was embraced from the get go. The detractors were few and far between if you use 4E and even PF2E as a reference. Then you say "90% the same" for something that can't actually be quantified. But, hey, lets go with it. Jack and Coke and Strychnine and Coke are 90% the same as well. That 10% can be important. I really LOVE several elements of PF2E. But, to me, the parts that fail, fail badly. You can't just ignore the content of what did change. You ignored my question about the current AP. I have a few more questions for you. If system makes no difference, then why make a new system? If APs control success, then why did PF1E drop in popularity? If APs control success, then why should anyone expect PF2E in 2020 to be any more popular than PF1E in 2017? You said that Paizo's core skill is creating adventures. Would you elaborate on why you said that when the topic is core system design. The implication of your redirection is that you don't want to comment on the system design. Is that true? Or would you be expand on your position and reconcile that disconnect? The bottom line is: people will play games they like. The success of PF2E will live or die based on what people think of that core over the long run. One third of a year in it does not look like the trend is promising. And if that is the case, then it does not make one an "edition warrior" to say so. I'd really like to see a great replacement for PF1E. If your google-fu is good you can probably find me saying that right after 2E was announced but before we had any details. But actually having and honest dissatisfaction with the system is a completely reasonable position and does not deserve ad hominem attacks. [/QUOTE]
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