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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 7900750" data-attributes="member: 957">Why would it grow later?  Certainly unknown brands that make it have an awareness arc.  But Pathfinder is a completely well-known brand.  Even other big names with a loyal fanbase (say Warhammer FRPG) decline after six months to a year.  They continue to enjoy support from their core fans.  It isn't collapse (usually), but growth is really rare.   5E is a major outlier.  And it is not growing by stealing pie, it is growing by making the pie much larger.Which certainly questions your assumption about people migrating from 5E to PF2E.  I'm a great example of someone who left 5E.  It happens most certainly.  But I don't see any basis for assuming that PF2E will be a beacon. Also, I have not heard anything really recent, but Paizo said they would produce the 1E stuff as long as it was selling. But I don't think that matters either. This seems to suggest that people are walking into a store and with little to no prior consideration buying the cheaper of the two games.  Setting aside the basic marketing psychology that people are drawn to the "upgraded newer model", there is just no evidence that uniformed hobby entrants are moving the needle for any Pathfinder brand title at this time.  5e is crushing that. And all THAT aside, if you took every single pocketbook sale and magically transformed it into a PF2E sale, you wouldn't move that needle much either.  PF sales have been WAY down for a while.  That is why we have PF2E.  The market share in terms of tables out there playing is down as well.  But sales are down much more because people have the books and don't need anything more.  The pocketbooks are great for people like me who want handy and cheap backups.The bottom line: I'd really like to understand WHY you think there will be growth.  The is a lot of love, a lot of hate and a whole lot of "meh".  We may not be able to define "a lot" but for each camp they are in the same ballpark.  People won't play a game they don't like. Lastly, it is interesting that you use the phrase "appearance of failure".  There is a lot of implication in that statement.  To me, I have no idea what Paizo wanted, I am certain that any non-D&D game would kill to be at PF2E levels, and I know that PF2E has not come anywhere near what my expectations for a home run PF2E would have been.</blockquote>

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