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<blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8194919" data-attributes="member: 6801252"><p>So when we're talking about a tipping point I think its important to remember the parts I italicized for emphasis in the posts you quoted, exactly so someone didn't respond in this fashion, I don't want to fall into the trap of thinking that it needs to numerically catch up with 5e to not be some kind of failure, it basically needs a healthy user base who buys its products on an ongoing basis and a bunch of people playing it. I see the tipping point as being more of an internal phenomenon, where the system reaches its market potential, where enough people are playing it that its a flourishing community in its own right, even knowing that community is likely an order of magnitude smaller than the 5e one in terms of players who aren't engaged with it online. Its like how a game like Final Fantasy 14 has a smaller user base than World of Warcraft, but is still considered to be successful in its own right, as opposed to the MMORPGs that are regarded as failures.</p><p></p><p>I guess what I really mean is that I feel like this game still has a lot of room to grow, there's a lot of players who would like it better than 5e who either haven't discovered it or haven't made the jump for whatever reason, there's 5e players who might be seduced by options that sort of aggressively don't exist in that game (they have very different policies about what's allowed to be a class, or even represented by unique mechanics), there's pf1e players who are shy of it for whatever reason who might find themselves seeing it differently, players who would really be content with either system who might come along with their pickier friends or want to get in on something new in general, people who like Paizo's way of delivering on representation and a healthier company culture, people who like its new school take on some old school design elements enough to adopt it from the OSR crowd as those elements receive more attention. </p><p></p><p>I don't think any of these are likely to be a mass exodus (unless WOTC really screws up, I guess) but I don't think PF2e is anywhere near its full potential player base, regardless of it's relative size to the 5e player base. As for it's 'low numbers' v. pf1e? I think that's just the difference between the built in 3.5e playerbase becoming the Pathfinder 1e playerbase, 4e being such a wildly different game, 5e drawing back many of those players, and then 2e starting anew as tis own game and gradually converting pf1e holdouts and 5e players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The-Magic-Sword, post: 8194919, member: 6801252"] So when we're talking about a tipping point I think its important to remember the parts I italicized for emphasis in the posts you quoted, exactly so someone didn't respond in this fashion, I don't want to fall into the trap of thinking that it needs to numerically catch up with 5e to not be some kind of failure, it basically needs a healthy user base who buys its products on an ongoing basis and a bunch of people playing it. I see the tipping point as being more of an internal phenomenon, where the system reaches its market potential, where enough people are playing it that its a flourishing community in its own right, even knowing that community is likely an order of magnitude smaller than the 5e one in terms of players who aren't engaged with it online. Its like how a game like Final Fantasy 14 has a smaller user base than World of Warcraft, but is still considered to be successful in its own right, as opposed to the MMORPGs that are regarded as failures. I guess what I really mean is that I feel like this game still has a lot of room to grow, there's a lot of players who would like it better than 5e who either haven't discovered it or haven't made the jump for whatever reason, there's 5e players who might be seduced by options that sort of aggressively don't exist in that game (they have very different policies about what's allowed to be a class, or even represented by unique mechanics), there's pf1e players who are shy of it for whatever reason who might find themselves seeing it differently, players who would really be content with either system who might come along with their pickier friends or want to get in on something new in general, people who like Paizo's way of delivering on representation and a healthier company culture, people who like its new school take on some old school design elements enough to adopt it from the OSR crowd as those elements receive more attention. I don't think any of these are likely to be a mass exodus (unless WOTC really screws up, I guess) but I don't think PF2e is anywhere near its full potential player base, regardless of it's relative size to the 5e player base. As for it's 'low numbers' v. pf1e? I think that's just the difference between the built in 3.5e playerbase becoming the Pathfinder 1e playerbase, 4e being such a wildly different game, 5e drawing back many of those players, and then 2e starting anew as tis own game and gradually converting pf1e holdouts and 5e players. [/QUOTE]
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