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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6226133" data-attributes="member: 1465">How many ways do you know? Please tell us more about better engaging ways.The "fixedness" is a double-edge sword. Fix too much and some players will be irritated by the lack of freedom, but fix too little and the same players will be bothered by having too few elements to follow. The average player probably wants the game to give him enough suggestions on being a Cleric of XYZ, so that he has a sort of draft to follow, but maybe be left with something to add on his own. Same for the DM for running NPCs and their groups.And yes, religion in D&D is a device for setting up plot hooks and investigations and McGuffins (at least I need all these), but IMXP it's still possibly the best device for the effort needed.But it does that... I just opened the F&P at a random deity page and got Mielikki. First half page, and the following is a list of bits and pieces of roleplaying suggestions that I can read there (just assuming I'm going to play an "iconic Cleric of Mielikki" i.e. who wants to be as similar to her as possible):- Neutral Good is the most appropriate alignment- forests as the favored environment- friends with forest creatures, rangers, dryads- good-humored, quick to smile and confident in actions- fiercely loyal and protective to friends, but careful in making new ones- death is part of the cycle of life, but curing the injured is the right thing to do- I can cound on our church to be well-regarded in wilderness areas- our clergy is seen as willing to balance nature preservation with civilized settlements- we listen to and understand the whispers of the woods- once a month we do a ritual to call forth a dryad or treant, and we serve it for a day- most important ritual events at the equinoxes and solstices (I can remind the DM to sometimes use these as adventures seeds, for instance)- opportunity for good interactions with NPC priests of Silvanus, Eldath, Gwaeron, Shiallia, Lurue, Shaundakul and Lathander- do not reveal openly to someone suspect of worshiping Malar, Talos or Talona- believe in harmony between intelligent creatures and the wild- don't feat the wild, believe it's always good, focus on the positive nature of it- do not allow trees to be cut or forest plunder beyond need- live in the forest, be part of the forest (teach others to also do so)- protect the life in the forest, defend every tree, plant anew- punish those who hunt for sports or are cruel against wildlife(etc... some more)Clearly the parts telling about what colors are the dresses or what alternative names of Mielikki are the least interesting, but all this stuff is useful to me both as a player and as a DM. It's a good starting point, and requires very little effort to use.Yes, the mechanical ways typically used by D&D have never been great.I do not like the typical idea in D&D of having clerics, druids, paladins and rangers of each deity. I think the traditional system of religions works for clerics, but is not good for the others.I think it would be much better if druids, paladins and rangers were not tied to specific deities, and not even be part or a religion per se (except druids, which presumably have a religion of their own).Not sure if this is what you mean when you talk about Paladins, but I think the best Paladin is still the iconic valiant version of it, I don't like having Paladins of ZYX, Paladins of XYZ etc. for each deity, and then having to struggle for differentiating Paladins from Clerics, or to even just define what the heck is a "Paladin of the God of Crafts and Commerce".But overall IMXP the traditional religions setup does manage to create good players motivations, not just in roleplay but in actions.</blockquote>

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