Religions in D&D

[Ydars]

I have always wondered why most FRPGs shy away from telling us anything about the religions in our game worlds; I mean religion is one of the most powerful forces in the time period our games are set up to 'faux' model, especially in D&D where we have a cleric class. There's not even any good advice on creating them either in the ton of supplements we've got from Paizo, WoTC or any of the others. We know zero about the rituals of Boccob's church, nadda about followers of Pelors' religious beliefs and ziltch about Garl Glittergold's bizarreness. Why is that? I can't help but feel that this might be political correctness again; after the 'witchhunts' of the 70s and 80s directed at our hobby. Or is it just that the vanilla settings never include this kind of stuff?

For more of my musings on religion in world-building see http://waysider.co.uk/on-belief-in-rpgs/

 

[delericho]

I have always wondered why most FRPGs shy away from telling us anything about the religions in our game worlds; I mean religion is one of the most powerful forces in the time period our games are set up to 'faux' model, especially in D&D where we have a cleric class. There's not even any good advice on creating them either in the ton of supplements we've got from Paizo, WoTC or any of the others.

There were bits and pieces of stuff in 2nd Edition: some in the "Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide", and considerably more in the "Complete Priest's Handbook". For 3e/OGL, didn't Green Ronin's "Book of the Righteous" touch on this?

But part of the reason the big companies haven't touched on this much is that they tend to be more interested in selling us a campaign setting, and so instead of telling us how to "roll our own", they'll sell us a book (or books) on the topic.

We know zero about the rituals of Boccob's church, nadda about followers of Pelors' religious beliefs

Need the end of its run, Dragon did a series of articles (by Sean Reynolds) detailing several of the deities in the PHB (and, by extension, Greyhawk). Boccob and Pelor were amongst those covered.

He now does the same for the gods of Golarion in Pathfinder, and I believe Paizo sell a number of books on the topic (including, but not limited to, compilations of those articles).

Or is it just that the vanilla settings never include this kind of stuff?

I suspect it's partly that, partly because they don't want to risk offending, partly because religion was actually barely mentioned in Appendix N sources, and partly because D&D has an awkward juxtaposition between the faux-medieval (where the dominant cultures were overwhelmingly monotheistic) and the more 'classical' (polytheistic) deities.

 

[Raith5]

Agree. I am also interested in how different religions have different forms of organisation and objectives - 4th ed PH had some of this for instance but more detail would have helped. I also like the idea of a single god having different religious orders with different - maybe sharply competing - priorities.

 

[Sunseeker]

Religions form and grow in a lot of different ways, and given the volumes of literature on the subject, I don't think Wizards could fairly handle it within a reasonably-sized rule-book. In such case I think "let the DM fill in the blanks" for homebrewing is probably a better idea, that way it's on the DM's head why a certain religion in their game formed in such a way.

 

[chaochou]

I have always wondered why most FRPGs shy away from telling us anything about the religions in our game worlds

Well, there was Chaosium's Runequest. The setting, Glorantha, was built entirely out of the myths of the gods and the more powerful magic in the game was only available through religious belief.

The main 'player' book (in many ways the only player book) for RQ2 was Cults of Prax, detailing the 11 major religions, their beliefs, membership structures, training, requirements, feelings about other religions and spells. Cults of Terror gave GMs the same for their less agreeable NPCs.

PCs and NPCs in Glorantha were identified primarily by their religious affiliations, and the same was true of the later Gloranthan game HeroWars. The Avalon Hill version (RQIII) was based in a 'mythic europe' had bland religious magic and introduced 'sorcery'.

It was the worst version by far, not because some of the rules clean-up wasn't needed, but because the mechanics and setting no longer meshed together seamlessly as they had in the earlier editions. AH did a u-turn about 4 years later and returned to Glorantha, re-releasing classic and OOP material like Pavis and the Big Rubble as well as new stuff, like Sun County - again, all centred on the religion at the Sun Dome Temple outside Pavis.

With regards to mainstream fantasy though, how much fantasy literature has religion as a central theme? Conan, Fafhrd and Mouser, Bilbo Baggins, Elric - these are not really 'religious' characters.

 

[Bluenose]

Well, there was Chaosium's Runequest. The setting, Glorantha, was built entirely out of the myths of the gods and the more powerful magic in the game was only available through religious belief.

The main 'player' book (in many ways the only player book) for RQ2 was Cults of Prax, detailing the 11 major religions, their beliefs, membership structures, training, requirements, feelings about other religions and spells. Cults of Terror gave GMs the same for their less agreeable NPCs.

PCs and NPCs in Glorantha were identified primarily by their religious affiliations, and the same was true of the later Gloranthan game HeroWars. The Avalon Hill version (RQIII) was based in a 'mythic europe' had bland religious magic and introduced 'sorcery'.

It was the worst version by far, not because some of the rules clean-up wasn't needed, but because the mechanics and setting no longer meshed together seamlessly as they had in the earlier editions. AH did a u-turn about 4 years later and returned to Glorantha, re-releasing classic and OOP material like Pavis and the Big Rubble as well as new stuff, like Sun County - again, all centred on the religion at the Sun Dome Temple outside Pavis.

With regards to mainstream fantasy though, how much fantasy literature has religion as a central theme? Conan, Fafhrd and Mouser, Bilbo Baggins, Elric - these are not really 'religious' characters.

Though it's worth noting that all versions of Glorantha have included some sort of rules for Sorcery/Wizardry, even if in some cases they weren't printed in the main rule book. And equally, that Wizardry very specifically is a part of the Church of the Invisible God, with all it's heresies, and that very many times a Wizard of that Church is a normal member of the clergy who probably performs a magical ritual every time they have a church service. Several Malkioni saints have associated wizardry orders (or martial ones) with their own special grimoires.

The other form of magic most commonly encountered/used by PCs would be animism, spirit-worship in various forms. Again, a religious thing, though in a different way to the form familiar from the Cults of... books. And of course while a theist would claim that the world was built on the myths of the gods, a wizard/sorceror would deny that, as would a shaman - who knows what a mystic would say. And they'd all be right, even when their views flatly contradict someone else's.

 

[chaochou]

Though it's worth noting that all versions of Glorantha have included some sort of rules for Sorcery/Wizardry, even if in some cases they weren't printed in the main rule book.

<snip>

The other form of magic most commonly encountered/used by PCs would be animism, spirit-worship in various forms. Again, a religious thing, though in a different way to the form familiar from the Cults of... books. And of course while a theist would claim that the world was built on the myths of the gods, a wizard/sorceror would deny that, as would a shaman - who knows what a mystic would say. And they'd all be right, even when their views flatly contradict someone else's.

Absolutely. Although my memory is of the original RQ using 'battle magic' for everyday spells and 'rune magic' for religious-based spells, be it ancestor worship or worship of a god.

For example, the Lunar empire was originally described through the theistic Seven Mothers (in Cults of Prax) but later sorcery and the orders of wizardry became a mich heavier focus for them (certainly in HeroWars).

But I'm quibbling about timings and I could be wrong, and my Glorantha lore is nowhere near what is was (plus it kept changing!) My over-riding point was that religion, and religious interpretations of the world, were a central theme in Glorantha as your second paragraph perfectly illustrates.

 

[SkidAce]

Religions form and grow in a lot of different ways, and given the volumes of literature on the subject, I don't think Wizards could fairly handle it within a reasonably-sized rule-book. In such case I think "let the DM fill in the blanks" for homebrewing is probably a better idea, that way it's on the DM's head why a certain religion in their game formed in such a way.

This is it.

 

[TerraDave]

No end of fantasy "religion" has been churned out for D&D and other FRPGs.

Take Pelor, for example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelor

When Gygax introduced his Greyhawk deities, he had religous elements. He had more on them as 'super' npcs, but had it. So did the annex of Deities and Demigods, and so have many, many other products. (Book of the Righteous is a good one).

You could argue that these aren't good fantasy religions. That they are not like real world religion. You could argue about there role in game.

Which I think is the real issue. What is the role of FRPG religion?

 

[Mercurius]

Yeah, I was going to mention Book of the RIghteous, which I mentioned on the thread over at The Other RPG Forum.

Hmm...deja vu.